Season tickets

You don't pay with Cash but how many blow jobs do you have to give?

Have some sympathy for the Man City fans - they're the ones with the hardest decision to make when it comes to renewing season tickets or not.

How boring can it be winning every game by four or five goals. What's the point going when you already know the result week in, week out and nothing to whinge about?

Thank God for Duggie - at least we don't have that problem.

wanderlust wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

doffcocker wrote:Fair play to Nat.

People talk like it's clever to put endless money into a multi-million pound organisation that gives them nothing but misery.

When you put it into perspective, it's absolutely pathetic.

Nat's argument is predicated on the idea that the only element of our relationship with BWFC is how much you pay and what you get for it on the pitch, which is wrong IMO. We all have a lot of emotional interest vested in BWFC and we don't just pay to see the team win. We pay for the hope that things will improve on the pitch. We pay for the excitement of seeing what team will be selected, whether a prospect will be selected, if the manager is heading for the sack or not and which players come in and out of the club. We pay for the opportunity to shout and moan and vent our fury and discuss it all with other people. We pay for the collective crowd experience good or bad and occasionally we pay for the pleasure of a good performance, a goal or two or even a win. We pay for these and many other aspects of what is an emotionally complex relationship with an organisation we both love and hate.
Like all relationships it can be unsatisfactory or break down altogether. We all get something different from our relationship with BWFC and if as in Nat's case it is not working she should accept it and move on gracefully.
Last time I broke up with a woman, I didn't turn round to all our friends and ask them not to speak to her just because I didn't love her anymore.
And last time I bought a lottery ticket I didn't complain just because it didn't win.

lusty this makes no sense. Effectively what you are saying is that Nat has no right to express her opinion and that we have no right to expect any value for the money we pay out. Both are wrong.

I'll start with the money issue. First and foremost we are CUSTOMERS, the club doesn't care about us in any way except for how to get our money out of our wallets and into their coffers. As a result they have a DUTY to try and provide value for that money and listen to OUR needs. If they don't, won't or simply have no interest in doing so then it's perfectly reasonable for Nat and others not to hand over any more of their money until and unless the club does something to win back our loyalty. By the way they don't have that as a RIGHT, they have it as a privilege and the blinkered "you must keep going, paying, stay true no matter what" is beyond stupid it's moronic if not downright cretinous.

Now for her opinions. I often disagree with Nat but wouldn't dream of saying she can't tell everyone else what she thinks. Let me put it this way. If you bought a burger and it made you throw up for days afterwards wouldn't YOU tell anyone else thinking about buying a burger from the same place that it isn't a good idea? 

For Natasha and a number of others they feel like the BWFC they truly WANT to support isn't giving them anything worthwhile in return for their money, time and effort. They feel unhappy and as a result they have said so which is absolutely their right. I don't think that BWFC should be exempt from people saying "Don't go there, I went and it was junk" any more than someone saying "Don't go to that film, it's crap" to someone who says they're considering going to watch a movie. 

Nat may be annoying, sometimes downright facile in what she says but she, like everyone else on this forum and in a democratic society has the absolute right to say it.

You've completely missed the point LPP.
Nat has every right to express her opinion as do I - and in my opinion, Nat's opinion is fine but her logic is flawed.
The point I was making about the money was to question exactly what are customers actually paying for?

To use your analogy...
If someone goes to see a film, doesn't enjoy it that person is entitled to say that they didn't enjoy it - but to assume that nobody else will enjoy it is just vain. 
Not everybody goes to see a film for the same reasons - I personally enjoy good acting and cinematography even if the script is lousy - others will forgive appalling acting if there's lots of action and SFX. 
And you can guarantee that any two people watching the same film at the same time in the same place will have a completely different experience of it as there are so many factors in play.

So Nat has every right to express her opinion, but to call everybody else a bellend because they don't see it her way ain't right.
Some of us enjoy the suffering in a pervy kind of way.  

The day Nat DOESN'T call everyone on here a bell-end is when we'll know her account has been hacked mate.   
As to your "enjoyment", well, all I can see is I don't need the kinky details of your sordid life thank you.   
Mrs Piper is still refusing to bring the twelve volt hairdryer OR the egg whisk when we go on holiday.  

Wanderlust / LuckyPeterPiper - you have some decent debates on here, but for the love of God will you both learn to use the quote system properly.

You only need to quote the message you are replying to, not the whole conversation.

Bellends.

I do find it refreshing that on this Forum people on the whole tend to respect each others decisions, unlike others I could mention where if you start a topic like this "SUPERFANS" burst out of the woodwork, you know, 'I was there in 19** we were playing Southport during an earthquake' WANKERS, top forum this one.!!!!!!!!!

bryan458 wrote:I do find it refreshing that on this Forum people on the whole tend to respect each others decisions, unlike others I could mention where if you start a topic like this "SUPERFANS" burst out of the woodwork, you know, 'I was there in 19** we were playing Southport during an earthquake' WANKERS, top forum this one.!!!!!!!!!

I was just about to launch into a rant about how I was present on a wet Friday night for BWFC's lowest ever league attendance so what right do the rest of you bellends have to question me.

But I won't now.

Your born your Dad /grandad,uncle ,friend take you to watch Wanderers.Usually most of us start as small children.The night matches under floodlights,the excitement regardless of the score.Getting home and your mum had made some hot broth with dumplings in.Watching Grandstand pre SKY era on BBC or World of Sport with Dickie Davies trying to get back to see the other results.Where we stood in the Leauge .Year after hoping for better.The bleak 80's the Roaring 90's.The BSA era,Europe finishing 8th,6th7th7th before BSA left.Did PG bottle the possibility of Bolton achieving a top 4 place?.I followed the lads in Macedonia,Munich,Madrid,and Lisbon last time we were in Europe. Playing Bayern Munich in the Allianz arena and coming away with a 2-2 draw.Now we are on a down turn,but Football isn't just about what you pay or if we are really bad, it's the friendships you make along the way,being part of something win lose or draw.Not being a glory hunter but waiting for the magical moments that take you to JOY that's unexplainable,bra nagans penalty save play offs 95,De Freitas 2-2 same match.Bobic hat trick v Ipswich to ensure safety in the first half 4-0 up.JJ Okocha v WHU 30 heard drive past David James and same season Frandsen n JJ again to keep us up 2-1 v Boro last day of the season. These are why we follow our team wether it's good,bad or ugly.But we pushed on World Cup winner wearing a Wanderers top Youri D n JJ his world class free kick v Villa in the Semi final 5-2.Then the European nights Ricky G putting us 1-0 up v the mighty Bayern before they came back and then SKD 2-2 past Oliver Khan.Them little golden nuggets that come along on rare occasions make it all worthwhile.Being a fan isn't measured in money it's something inside you that says no matter what I will be a Bolton supporter till they put me in the ground.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Wanderlust / LuckyPeterPiper - you have some decent debates on here, but for the love of God will you both learn to use the quote system properly.

You only need to quote the message you are replying to, not the whole conversation.

Bellends.

Nat, nice to see you haven't been hacked.  

White I am an oldster like you, went to div 4 matches on a wet weeknight in january and got to lisbon as well BUT football isn't like that any more. I love BWFC and will till I go six feet down or get very well done but face it mate, football is a very expensive way of spending free time and making friends etc. I think you're a bit rose tinted on the "good old days" because they weren't that good. Hooliganism, crap ground, rubbish facilities to name but a few of the things we tend to gloss over when we look back. 

These days we have much safer matchday experiences in much better stadia and so on but it comes with a hefty bill in terms of wallet damage that gets worse all the time. In an era when the economy is in bad shape it's little wonder that people are reluctant to pay out hundreds and hundreds of pounds for "entertainment" which is what football is meant to be unless they get something for it in return that makes them feel they spent the money wisely. 

Sadly in this day and age that just isn't so and frankly I can't blame the stay aways for that given how much it costs to keep the overpaid twerps in their baby bentleys going. 

Besides, we've never been a massive club in terms of fanbase size, no matter how cheap it was to get in or get a season ticket. We hardly packed the place out in the mid to late 80's did we? A few thousand of us die hards who kept coming in the div 4 days and prayed for miracles which we thought we'd received with the arrival of Ed and then of course the awesome Big Sam years that took us on the magical mystery tour of Europe. 

But the truth is simple, today's fan is much smarter than we are and EXPECTS value for their money. They KNOW there are cheaper ways of spending time with their mates that will be much more fun to boot. It's up to Bolton Wanderers to EARN their loyalty, something Gartside et al are signally failing to do.

There are cheaper ways and I've cut the amount of away matches I go now this season I've been to 3,Burnley,Wigan,Notts Forest.Ill still go to the home matches as I'm in a position to pay £400 for a season ticket.I know not everybody is and times are hard.However ill still go to the Home Matches come what may,that's just a personal preference ,creature of habit I guess.Im a simple working class bloke.A season ticket and Sky for the footy and I'm happy.I accept the footy is dire but hope springs eternal.

White84 wrote:There are cheaper ways and I've cut the amount of away matches I go now this season I've been to 3,Burnley,Wigan,Notts Forest.Ill still go to the home matches as I'm in a position to pay £400 for a season ticket.I know not everybody is and times are hard.However ill still go to the Home Matches come what may,that's just a personal preference ,creature of habit I guess.Im a simple working class bloke.A season ticket and Sky for the footy and I'm happy.I accept the footy is dire but hope springs eternal.

Like you I'm lucky in that I can afford a season ticket for myself and my two sons as well, but I am nearly 45 and in a (fairly) well paid job which lets me work from home most of the time with a very lovely wife who earns more than I do so we aren't strapped the way some families and the younger generation are now. 

What gets me angry on their behalf is the sheer amount of money they're expected to part with and the wages players are on that seem to positively REWARD failure and mediocrity. I don't advocate the maximum wage rule being brought back in but some sort of sanity has to prevail. When a second division player with a small town club is earning more in a week than most fans earn in a year and he isn't even all that good at the game then something is very wrong indeed. Something has to give or football really will be the ultimate loser in the end. FFP is a start but all it really does is reinforce the gulf between the "haves" and "have-nots" that has been widening at a scary pace since the advent of Premier League and Sky. 

In all seriousness, the fans are being ignored week in week out and I applaud the ones who have the courage and the sense to say "hang on a minute, if you want MY money then you need to do something to EARN it" rather than spout the old rubbish about "real fans go no matter what 'cos only plastics want value for money". 

More power to the kids who say "Nah, think I'll go somewhere else with my mates, somewhere that doesn't rip me off by providing rubbish every week."

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

White84 wrote:There are cheaper ways and I've cut the amount of away matches I go now this season I've been to 3,Burnley,Wigan,Notts Forest.Ill still go to the home matches as I'm in a position to pay £400 for a season ticket.I know not everybody is and times are hard.However ill still go to the Home Matches come what may,that's just a personal preference ,creature of habit I guess.Im a simple working class bloke.A season ticket and Sky for the footy and I'm happy.I accept the footy is dire but hope springs eternal.

Like you I'm lucky in that I can afford a season ticket for myself and my two sons as well, but I am nearly 45 and in a (fairly) well paid job which lets me work from home most of the time with a very lovely wife who earns more than I do so we aren't strapped the way some families and the younger generation are now. 

What gets me angry on their behalf is the sheer amount of money they're expected to part with and the wages players are on that seem to positively REWARD failure and mediocrity. I don't advocate the maximum wage rule being brought back in but some sort of sanity has to prevail. When a second division player with a small town club is earning more in a week than most fans earn in a year and he isn't even all that good at the game then something is very wrong indeed. Something has to give or football really will be the ultimate loser in the end. FFP is a start but all it really does is reinforce the gulf between the "haves" and "have-nots" that has been widening at a scary pace since the advent of Premier League and Sky. 

In all seriousness, the fans are being ignored week in week out and I applaud the ones who have the courage and the sense to say "hang on a minute, if you want MY money then you need to do something to EARN it" rather than spout the old rubbish about "real fans go no matter what 'cos only plastics want value for money". 

More power to the kids who say "Nah, think I'll go somewhere else with my mates, somewhere that doesn't rip me off by providing rubbish every week."

As always Lucky Peter, another fantastic post!

Agreed the wages for mediocrity is ridiculous but the FFP is a case of shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.The fact that Rooneys next contract will earn him £70 million is eye watering.Still I enjoy Saturdays ,although not so much this season but I live in hope and as I'm around your age PP I'm financially secure.So like I day I'm a creature of habit and I've watched worse in worse conditions.C'est la vie

White84 wrote:Agreed the wages for mediocrity is ridiculous but the FFP is a case of shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.The fact that Rooneys next contract will earn him £70 million is eye watering.Still I enjoy Saturdays ,although not so much this season but I live in hope and as I'm around your age PP I'm financially secure.So like I day I'm a creature of habit and I've watched worse in worse conditions.C'est la vie

Yeah mate we've both seen a LOT worse. Like the Aldershot game. Normid "superstore" anyone? You know I can still remember their god awful jingle as well. Whatever happened to Normid? And did Knight Security prosper after being on our shirt? 

Like you I'll go to home games because I have a season ticket and live in hope BUT what I can truly see is the fact that those who don't go are in all probability right not to. And why should they fork out four hundred quid and more then be asked to fork out again for FA cup games, matchday programmes, food and drink, transport and all the rest that goes with being a modern day football fan unless they're getting something worthwhile in return? 

Football itself, not just BWFC needs to wake up to a frightening reality. In the 21st Century football clubs no longer have the loyalty of fans automatically. They have to now EARN it and rightly so. If my lad comes to me next season and says he wants to spend the money he'd use on an ST to go out with his mates somewhere else all season I can't honestly say I'd blame him. Can you? Could any of us really? This is a commercial business selling a product, namely entertainment and they are asking a lot of money for that so if the product on show is rubbish why should they feel aggrieved that customers decide not to buy it?

I have no problem with anyone thinking that they're not getting value for money(they're not).This season as been terrible.But we have been lower as you day Normid on half the Embankment,Embarrassing.I can remember Nat Lofthouse coming on the pitch trying to raise money,the beginning of Bolton Lifeline.1982 I think.Bolton have Bruce Rioch to thank for so much.Bringing Super John,Branagan from Millwall,getting Jason Mcateer from Marine for £500.Promotion back to the Championship in 93 and then that famous day at Wembley 2-0 down and Reading win a pen as McAteer scythes down one of their forwards.We all know what happened next its History.Now we have the best stadium in the Champoinship and if we can rid ourselves of DF next season with Wheater and Mills starting as CB's get a decent start and who knows.DF needs to go IMO!.

I agree about DF white but I also think that Phil Gartside has to carry the can and go with him. Four failed managers in a row in a fairly short space of time to boot suggests he's not competent to pick the next one. 

It's a hairy time on and off the pitch. Phil says we aren't REALLY in debt one minute then we're told we can't strengthen because we're in so much debt that FFP will plonk an embargo on us soon unless we get rid of a load off the wage bill as it is while the club pays stupid money to players who don't seem to care at all under a manager who's both clueless tactically and rubbish at motivating them. 

I dunno where we go now mate, I have a sinking feeling we're gonna see that div 4 days again before we see the likes of lisbon.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Soul Kitchen wrote:So you are not going Saturday? Being a BWFC supporter is a man thing, do you understand?

I'm going, but I don't pay a penny to BWFC.

Not a supporter then! And as such if you go for free you can't bellyache about fuck all!!
It'$ cnuts like you that's bringing the club down.

White84 wrote:Your born your Dad /grandad,uncle ,friend take you to watch Wanderers.Usually most of us start as small children.The night matches under floodlights,the excitement regardless of the score.Getting home and your mum had made some hot broth with dumplings in.Watching Grandstand pre SKY era on BBC or World of Sport with Dickie Davies trying to get back to see the other results.Where we stood in the Leauge .Year after hoping for better.The bleak 80's the Roaring 90's.The BSA era,Europe finishing 8th,6th7th7th before BSA left.Did PG bottle the possibility of Bolton achieving a top 4 place?.I followed the lads in Macedonia,Munich,Madrid,and Lisbon last time we were in Europe.                                                                                          Playing Bayern Munich in the Allianz arena and coming away with a 2-2 draw.Now we are on a down turn,but Football isn't just about what you pay or if we are really bad, it's the friendships you make along the way,being part of something win lose or draw.Not being a glory hunter but waiting for the magical moments that take you to JOY that's unexplainable,bra nagans penalty save play offs 95,De Freitas 2-2 same match.Bobic hat trick v Ipswich to ensure safety in the first half 4-0 up.JJ Okocha v WHU 30 heard drive past David James and same season Frandsen n JJ again to keep us up 2-1 v Boro last day of the season.                                                                                                                                                                                                  These are why we follow our team wether it's good,bad or ugly.But we pushed on World Cup winner wearing a Wanderers top Youri D n JJ  his world class free kick v Villa in the Semi final 5-2.Then the European nights Ricky G putting us 1-0 up v the mighty Bayern before they came back and then SKD 2-2 past Oliver Khan.Them little golden nuggets that come along on rare occasions make it all worthwhile.Being a fan isn't measured in money it's something inside you that says no matter what I will be a Bolton supporter till they put me in the ground.

Not sure about the hot broth and dumplings White, but this captures exactly what I was trying to say earlier. All the shit we go through is necessary as it makes the good moments even better, if that makes sense.

My mums broth with dumplings after a cold afternoon in the Lever End ( pre seats) always sticks in my memory of carefree days with my dad.When I first started going and was like 6 or about ,I always remember the smell of pipe Tobacco.To this day you very rarely see people smoking pipes,but to this day that smell reminds me of the Manny road seated part of the stadium.Happy Days.John Byrom,Roy greaves,Barry Siddall ,division 3 we were in then.

The reason I started this thread was to guage the lengths true supporters will go to, to support the team, and fair play, most of you are, but we are just a small section of the BWFC community, and I suspect season ticket sales will be well down, quite how the board will view that I'm not sure, but it's not a great endorsement for Freedman that's for sure.