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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Should prisoners be allowed to vote ?

Should prisoners be allowed to vote ?

+12
Hipster_Nebula
WhiteBic
Lyric Todkill
Lofty_Love
doffcocker
LW23
BoltonTillIDie
Natasha Whittam
Angry Dad
xmiles
bwfc71
Reebok Trotter
16 posters

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1Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Wed May 23, 2012 6:19 am

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The European Court of human rights have decreed that the UK is breaching prisoners human rights by not allowing them to vote.

Call me Dave has taken umbrage at another blatant attack on our sovereignty ( and rightly so in my opinion ).

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

I toally agree that prisoners, of any sort should not be able to vote whilst incarcerated.

The ECHR has given some leaway as to which prisoners can or cannot vote. As it now stands I would say that Cat A, B and C prisoners should not be able to vote, whilst Cat D prisoners should be able top vote only in the last 6 months of their sentance.

For those who do not know what teh categories mean a list is below:

Cat A - Those whose escape would be highly dangerous to the public or national security. Offences that may result in consideration for Category A or Restricted Status include: Murder, Attempted murder, Manslaughter, Wounding with intent, Rape, Indecent assault, Robbery or conspiracy to rob (with firearms), Firearms offences, Importing or supplying Class A controlled drug, Possessing or supplying explosives, Offences connected with terrorism and Offences under the Official Secrets Act

Cat B - Those who do not require maximum security, but for whom escape needs to be made very difficult

Cat C - Those who cannot be trusted in open conditions but who are unlikely to try to escape

Cat D - Those who can be reasonably trusted not to try to escape, and are given the privilege of an open prison. Prisoners at 'D Cat' (as it is commonly known) prisons, are, subject to approval, given ROTL (Release On Temporary Licence) to work in the community or to go on 'home leave' once they have passed their FLED (Full Licence Eligibility Dates), which is usually a quarter of the way through the sentence.



Basically with this ruling from the ECHR, I can see the categories being re-arranged to "Closed" Prisoners and "Open" Prisoners, rather than the 4 categories at present, with "Open" prisoners being able to vote.

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

I don't understand why people get so worked up about this. Does it really matter? I doubt many prisoners care. A few votes is not going to make any difference to anything anyway.

4Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Wed May 23, 2012 10:26 am

Angry Dad

Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff

Yes.

5Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Wed May 23, 2012 11:08 am

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

xmiles wrote:I don't understand why people get so worked up about this. Does it really matter? I doubt many prisoners care. A few votes is not going to make any difference to anything anyway.

The whole point of being put in prision is to take away your freedom. Having the chance to vote is about as free as it gets surely?

6Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Wed May 23, 2012 12:09 pm

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:I don't understand why people get so worked up about this. Does it really matter? I doubt many prisoners care. A few votes is not going to make any difference to anything anyway.

The whole point of being put in prision is to take away your freedom. Having the chance to vote is about as free as it gets surely?

I can think of a whole lot of things I would miss more than my right to vote.

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Prisoner voting ban is to be debated again! Personally I agree that Prisoners have waived their right to vote as soon as they have been imprisoned - It's part of the punishment.

MPs are to be given another say on whether to give prisoners the vote, as the deadline for Britain to comply with a European ruling on the controversial issue looms.



The UK's current blanket ban on prisoners voting has been judged as unlawful by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and officials in Strasbourg have given the Government until Friday to comply with the ruling.

Last February, the Commons called by an overwhelming margin of 234 to 22 for the blanket ban to be maintained, while David Cameron has flatly ruled out the option of handing criminals back their democratic rights.

MPs will this week be given another chance to vote on the issue when the Government introduces a draft bill.

The bill, to be published on Thursday, will give MPs three options, according to The Daily Telegraph.

They will be votes for prisoners who have been imprisoned for four years or less, votes for prisoners who have been imprisoned for six months or less, or no votes for prisoners at all.

There is a risk that this week's Commons vote could set up another clash with the ECHR, which could fine the Government if it does not comply with its ruling.

Attorney General Dominic Grieve has warned against defying the Strasbourg court, saying its ruling imposes an international legal obligation on the UK.

But the Prime Minister made it clear he would not be letting prisoners get the vote.

David Cameron told the Commons last month: "I do not want prisoners to have the vote, and they should not get the vote - I am very clear about that.

"If it helps to have another vote in Parliament on another resolution to make it absolutely clear and help put the legal position beyond doubt, I am happy to do that.

"But no one should be in any doubt: prisoners are not getting the vote under this Government."

Justice Secretary Chris Grayling has said Parliament has the right in law to tell the ECHR that it does not accept its ruling.

But he added there would be "consequences" for the UK's position in Europe if MPs do chose to defy the judgement.

In 2005, the ECHR said it was up to individual countries to decide which prisoners should be denied the right to vote from jail, but that a total ban was illegal.

http://news.sky.com/story/1012942/prisoner-voting-ban-mps-to-debate-again

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Lifers should not be allowed to vote under any circumstances.

LW23


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel

NO

10Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:03 pm

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

They shouldn't be allowed to buy lottery tickets either. That filthy rapist Iorworth Hoare now lives like a king.

11Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:24 pm

doffcocker

doffcocker
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Let's say Criminal A is sentenced to 2 years in jail, and there's a general election a month before he's due for release and Criminal B is handed the same sentence, except two months earlier, so he's released a month ahead of the election.

Is it completely fair that Criminal B gets a say in the politics of the country of the following five years, where Criminal A simply doesn't?

So although I don't strongly feel prisoners should be allowed a vote, I think there's a wider angle to it than some make out.

12Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:28 pm

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I think that if you are in prison on the day of the general election then you have forfeited your right to vote.

13Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:29 pm

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Thanks just hard luck in my opinion - If you want choices, don't commit a crime and get sent to prison.

14Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:31 pm

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Perhaps we should have a thread entitled, Should prisoners be allowed to vote for their Police commissioner.

15Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:39 pm

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Why do people get so worked up about this?

As I said before does it really matter? I doubt many prisoners care. A few votes is not going to make any difference to anything anyway.

16Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:42 pm

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

xmiles wrote:Why do people get so worked up about this?

As I said before does it really matter? I doubt many prisoners care. A few votes is not going to make any difference to anything anyway.

For me it's a matter of principle. Why should people who do not conform to our laws be allowed to have any say in how they are administered ?

17Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:54 pm

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

doffcocker wrote:Let's say Criminal A is sentenced to 2 years in jail, and there's a general election a month before he's due for release and Criminal B is handed the same sentence, except two months earlier, so he's released a month ahead of the election.

Is it completely fair that Criminal B gets a say in the politics of the country of the following five years, where Criminal A simply doesn't?

So although I don't strongly feel prisoners should be allowed a vote, I think there's a wider angle to it than some make out.



Potential problem with that is as the proposed 6 months vote.



What happens if a prisoner is 6 months and 1 day - would that be fair?

The franchise would then get extended and extended and extended until all prisoners get have the franchise.



I agree that those in "open" prisons or 6 months feel a bit put-off but on the flipside they have committed a crime and forfeited their right to have a say, until their full release. In fact I would extended the dis-enfranchisement to include those who are out on licence - basically they are still serving the sentence but been good enough to be licenced out of the prison system.

18Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:49 pm

Lofty_Love

Lofty_Love
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Natasha Whittam wrote:The whole point of being put in prision is to take away your freedom. Having the chance to vote is about as free as it gets surely?

Reebok Trotter wrote:I think that if you are in prison on the day of the general election then you have forfeited your right to vote.

Agreed.



I think that saying it isn't fair they can't vote for a government because the election is in their last month of their sentence is a whole new level of liberalism.


They committed the crime when they did, if they wanted to both commit crime and vote so badly then maybe they should have planned ahead, or just chosen one.



It would be like saying people who are only a month off being 18 should be able to vote because it isn't fair, they are almost there...
...but they aren't 18, and people in prison are not part of the community, they have been temporarily removed and so shouldn't be able to vote with the community

19Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:06 pm

Lyric Todkill

Lyric Todkill
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly

No


And we should resist interference from Europe

20Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Empty Re: Should prisoners be allowed to vote ? Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:15 pm

WhiteBic

WhiteBic
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly

The whole interference from Eurpoe is starting to get me down. Surely the positives of leaving the EU out way the negatives?

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