Knight - Stay or go time on Monday. Boyata back for another season?

I think Knight has been one of our best players in the past, and could do a decent job for us next season if he gets his act together.

He's very much a motivation player. When he's in the mood, he's very decent. When he's not he's atrocious and it's embarrassing to watch.

One of our best players..... ok.

fair enough, I've said in the past and i stand by it that he is a good tackler on occasion the problem is his next move is to pump it into the corner and give it right back to the opo.

it's simply a case of having NO football IQ what-so-ever.

We went down for a reason, our players were mediocre and or extremely poor. Knight is the stand out of that bunch, he's simply not good enough. I don't understand what we can possibly gain from hanging onto him?

Im seriously disappointed the club want to continue in the same vain by retaining players that supposedly represent the polar oposite of Coyles "footballing ethos"

Hipster_Nebula wrote:One of our best players..... ok.

I knew this would upset you.

haha no it doesn't.

I disagree obviously but footballs very subjective so what some people value is very different to others.

Knight i just the kind of player i hate watching.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
fair enough, I've said in the past and i stand by it that he is a good tackler on occasion the problem is his next move is to pump it into the corner and give it right back to the opo.

it's simply a case of having NO football IQ what-so-ever.

We went down for a reason, our players were mediocre and or extremely poor. Knight is the stand out of that bunch, he's simply not good enough. I don't understand what we can possibly gain from hanging onto him?

Im seriously disappointed the club want to continue in the same vain by retaining players that supposedly represent the polar oposite of Coyles "footballing ethos"

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am no fan of Zat Knight's.

However, I do think your last paragraph is bizarre. We are talking about a centre half to play in the Championship here, not Franco Baresi.

Can I point out to you that we weren't playing in the Championship last season and that generally, opposition players aren't up to the same standard? Because you seem to be missing this point in asserting that because you don't think he was good enough last season he is automatically not good enough for us next season.

It's quite common the players in their 30s to drop down a league and be very successful at that lower level.

I want us to have the best players possible. This could all be academic anyway if Knight rejects the contract offer, but I do wonder what sort of player you are expecting us to sign as an alternative on a free.

Simply a player who values the basics of football.

A player with a bit of upside and a decent football IQ.

Thats the kind of player i want to see at Bolton.

I don't think for a moment that dropping down to the championship will mean Zat Knight can strut out of defence and pick passes left right and centre.

Tim Ream is a example of the player i like to watch. Sure he gives it away here and there and is naive at times positionally, but what i love is he will always take responsibility, he wants the ball at his feet, his first option is always a pass to feet, if he goes long it's AIMED toward someone, cultured on the diagonal or he's seen a run.

thats the football i like to watch and i don't think it's unrealistic to expect pros to have mastered the basics by the time they're playing first team football for Bolton Wanderers.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
I don't think for a moment that dropping down to the championship will mean Zat Knight can strut out of defence and pick passes left right and centre.

And neither does anyone else. I'm not expecting him to turn into a different type of player because he would be playing at a lower level. What a facetious thing to write.

At his best he is a solid, no-nonsense centre back. Playing at that level could bring out his best again.

It's doesn't take a big leap of intelligence to grasp the point I'm making.

But anyway, if you think we can sign a ball playing centre back on a free transfer, great, I hope we do, but perhaps I have lower expectations of what can realistically be achieved with our transfer and wage budget.

Well we managed to acquire Tim Ream for 2 million pounds.

I think your misunderstanding what i like to see in a player, I'm not talking about Rio in his pomp, or Fabio Cannavario, which you seem to think i am.

I'm simply talking about someone who's first thought is "is there a pass on" not "I'm gonna smash this" Thats it... that...is...it.

I'm not being facetious in the slightest. My ambition for Bolton is to see players who know the basics of football the BASICS. I.E not hard.

Zat, sadly hasn't mastered them, he hasn't even approached them. He's 30.

Your last sentence sums it all up "if you think we can sign a ball playing centre back..." What else is football but ball playing... thats my sadness with the game, the basics are no longer expected, a pass to the left or right, or even backwards is seen as a commodity.

Average joes like Knight have bled the game dry with a complete and utter lack of basic skills, and thats a shame.

if you, or anyone else disagrees not a problem, and if he does sign and is able to cope better in the champ, i'll be delighted and will happily admit i was wrong, as always.

I hate Zat Knight for making me agree 100% with everything Hipster says.

We're not going to be paying a fee for a centre back this Summer, so Tim Ream might as well have been £20m as £2m. There's also a huge drop in the standard of player we can attract with us being relegated. I think that given our budget and status Knight is around the standard we should be looking to attract, if Knight leaves.

I do think you are exaggerating Knight's capabilities on the ball. They are not great, they are below average, certainly.

We have had many centre backs over the years who are not in the 'ball playing' mould. Taggart, N'Gotty and Wheater spring to mind for example. It's possible to be successful as a centre back without having the passing ability and vision you seem to want - just by being a big lump at the back. Often successful CB partnerships have one such CB and a more cultured player alongside them.

largehat wrote:

We have had many centre backs over the years who are not in the 'ball playing' mould. Taggart, N'Gotty and Wheater spring to mind for example.

Fuck off you dick, Taggart used to stride forward with the ball whenever he got the chance - and he was bloody good at it. And N'Gotty was as good as any defender with the ball at his feet, he rarely gave it away.

Stop making out that these overpaid ponces are anything but shit. Half of them wouldn't have made it to non-league football 20 years ago.

largehat wrote:We're not going to be paying a fee for a centre back this Summer, so Tim Ream might as well have been £20m as £2m. There's also a huge drop in the standard of player we can attract with us being relegated. I think that given our budget and status Knight is around the standard we should be looking to attract, if Knight leaves.

I do think you are exaggerating Knight's capabilities on the ball. They are not great, they are below average, certainly.

We have had many centre backs over the years who are not in the 'ball playing' mould. Taggart, N'Gotty and Wheater spring to mind for example. It's possible to be successful as a centre back without having the passing ability and vision you seem to want - just by being a big lump at the back. Often successful CB partnerships have one such CB and a more cultured player alongside them.

Yeah there is something in that. I'm not unrealistic i know we've got £0 to spend this season and won't be seeing any "name" arrivals.

I'd rather see a young lad from the academy with the basics learning from a Ream, sure it might not be pretty at the start but maybe we'd be able to watch someone grow. Probably an overly romantic view but it is what it is.

Don't be calling me a dick, Natasha. I'm sick of you ruining discussions with your childish insults. Go and pretend you're slashing tyres or something and let the grown ups talk.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
Yeah there is something in that. I'm not unrealistic i know we've got £0 to spend this season and won't be seeing any "name" arrivals.

I'd rather see a young lad from the academy with the basics learning from a Ream, sure it might not be pretty at the start but maybe we'd be able to watch someone grow. Probably an overly romantic view but it is what it is.

Yeah I'd rather we had someone we could bring through too, and Knight certainly isn't one for the future and I hope if he does sign a new contract it is only a one year deal, the last thing I want to see is us gain promotion and Knight with a squad number.

Connolly was supposed to be that player we're talking about, and he is currently 21 and without a club. From what I can gather (and I will freely admit I don't follow our reserve and youth teams) the players we have coming through don't include a centre back.

If we are to get into the top 6 next season we are going to have to win ugly, I know what you're saying with your earlier comment about Coyle's football philosophy, but I just can't see us passing everyone to death for 46 games.

largehat wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
Yeah there is something in that. I'm not unrealistic i know we've got £0 to spend this season and won't be seeing any "name" arrivals.

I'd rather see a young lad from the academy with the basics learning from a Ream, sure it might not be pretty at the start but maybe we'd be able to watch someone grow. Probably an overly romantic view but it is what it is.

Yeah I'd rather we had someone we could bring through too, and Knight certainly isn't one for the future and I hope if he does sign a new contract it is only a one year deal, the last thing I want to see is us gain promotion and Knight with a squad number.

Connolly was supposed to be that player we're talking about, and he is currently 21 and without a club. From what I can gather (and I will freely admit I don't follow our reserve and youth teams) the players we have coming through don't include a centre back.

If we are to get into the top 6 next season we are going to have to win ugly, I know what you're saying with your earlier comment about Coyle's football philosophy, but I just can't see us passing everyone to death for 46 games.

Yeah i agree in the main, It's more a frustration and a sadness when i mention Coyles philosophy. Lets be honest if Pep took over last season we'd still have seen Knight pumping it into the corner, and Davo struggling to control balls etc etc.

thats why i got excited when Vela came into the mix last season, seeing him a few times in the reserves he's tough tackler, full of passion and also has that bit of nous, he's usually in space and he wants the ball back, even in his limited minutes he thundered into a few tackles and showed that bit of IQ i like.

thats why i get annoyed when people like Knight are retained, if he's keeping someone (young) who could potentially play well at championship level and learn his trade at the same time it's the wrong move IMO.

but like you say there isn't much noise about CB's coming out so maybe having a couple of "meat heads" here and there isn't such a bad thing who knows.

I get both sides of this discussion on Zat Knight. My problem to a great extent is that he is unlikely to be offered a 1 year contract and I hope to only spend a year in the nPower Championship. He showed me last season that he can no longer cut it in the Barclays Premier League and he is unlikely to improve (although it would not be too easy to get worse). I would much rather a youngster who is learning than a donkey who doesn't seem able to.

I'll rock the boat......I don't fathom why Zat has become the whipping boy of this team. He's not much cop but no worse that half the other donkey's in our team. And he didn't play half the games so can't be blamed for our demise. I think he will do ok in the Championship....no upside as others have stated but neither does SKD.

largehat wrote:Don't be calling me a dick, Natasha. I'm sick of you ruining discussions with your childish insults. Go and pretend you're slashing tyres or something and let the grown ups talk.

If you come on here and make stupid comments about ex-players you're going to get pulled up.

I'm tiring of your defend-at-all-costs attitude towards the modern day footballer.

Having lost so many players already I can understand (just about) why he's been offered a new contract, he is one of the few experienced players left and may perform better at this level.

If we had more choice in players (had we stayed up) id never have offered him a contract. But so long as he's on a massively reduced wage that reflects the form he's shown in the last year or so then I'd take him on. But that wage should be the equal to the lowest paid players in the squad in my opinion, because he is probably the worst. If that's done I think he's worth having around, otherwise get shot of him.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:Don't be calling me a dick, Natasha. I'm sick of you ruining discussions with your childish insults. Go and pretend you're slashing tyres or something and let the grown ups talk.

If you come on here and make stupid comments about ex-players you're going to get pulled up.

I'm tiring of your defend-at-all-costs attitude towards the modern day footballer.

I'm not interested whether you're tired of my views on football in the slightest - but I will not have anyone on this forum casually calling me a 'dick' - if you do it again, I will complain about it, if it doesn't get removed, I stop posting, it's as simple as that. Who the fuck do you think you are anyway? Don't call me a dick again.