F.A.O Doffcocker

Can you still justify your faith in Lennon? 1-0 down showing no signs of getting back into the game, yet leaves subs until 6 minutes before FT, the man is one clueless inept ballsack, there is only one way we will stay up this season, and that is get rid of the fool now and bring Pearson in, new manager bounce, and a guy that knows how to manage, Lennon should fuck off back to the pub league where there is no competition.

Yes Martin, we've lost 1-0 away at Birmingham. I take back everything I ever said, the man really doesn't have a clue.

It shows just how volatile and melodramatic some fans are that they think people should go back on everything they ever said about somebody on the basis of one result. I could have told you before the match started that we'd lose, except I'd have probably told you we'd get beat by two or three. We could lose every match between now and the end of the season and everything I've said about Lennon's hands being tied etc would still stand.

But instead of asking me what I think, why don't you answer the question that you continually avoid - possibly because you haven't seen a Bolton match for about ten years, I dunno - what, what, what do you want Lennon to do about it? Because it's easy to sit in your armchair and call him clueless on the basis that we've lost as many matches as we have. But unless you can suggest a few things a replacement ought to do differently, it doesn't make your argument very strong.

MartinBWFC wrote: bring Pearson in, new manager bounce, and a guy that knows how to manage,

This bit made me laugh.

Essentially you're only putting Pearson's name out there because of his last eight or so matches at Leicester, but if he had a shit run of eight matches at Bolton you'd be the bloody first to call him a clueless ballbag, wouldn't you Martin!

Be honest now.

I'm with doffcocker. I think lennon is a good manager operating under intolerable pressure with a squad of substandard players he didn't pick. Why anyone would want a manager who has already failed more than once at clubs in much better basic shape than ours to come in and replace him is frankly a mystery to me. 

I want Neil to be given two things. First and foremost at least one year or two full transfer windows where we aren't under embargo and second some real money to spend on buying the players he actually wants rather than the dregs of the freebies and rejects bins he's had to use thus far. 

I think if he gets those we'll see a very different man and a very different club. If he doesn't get them or (should he be sacked) we bring in yet another tired failure who's reputation is based on one half decent season then I think we're screwed and deserve to be. 

Neil Lennon has my complete support regardless of current results. Yes we lost 1-0 tonight but even if we go down it won't be the end. All of us over 30 remember days when we were even lower and even more precariously poised on the brink of extinction. We bounced back then and we can do it again. I believe Lennon is the man to make that happen or at the very least get the process started.

I'm with Doffcocker, we lose 1-0 away and fans start crying like little baby's , we should know from past experience that sacking the Manager doesn't work.

There really is little point in having a go at Lennon because he has been working with a stacked deck of cards since day one. I doubt any manager, with the benefit of a hindsight crystal ball, would have taken the job on, knowing what financial crisis was on the horizon. Fergie couldn't get us out of the shit we are in at the moment, in fact, no-one could.

This argument is a little boring now tbh. Nothing can be said that hasn't been said already. Shit tactics/team selection/leaves it too late for subs etc versus the old hands tied/no money argument. 

I lean more towards martins argument because that's what I believe to be true. It's not after one game that everyone thinks he's shit, it's a massive accumulation of games. Yes, he kept us up last season and did well for a while whilst the new manager effect was there, but once that wore off it all fell apart. 

I am not a complete idiot. I fully understand the constraints this guy has been working under and I feel sorry for him in that respect, but there's no room for sentiment in football. It's all well and good telling people to pick out what he's doing wrong and what to change, which people have done btw, just not to your satisfaction, but the only argument you have is that he's had no money so we should just let him crack on with us being absolutely shite and just accept relegation. Bollocks to that! 

You might be right in saying that no manager in the world could save us right now but you don't know it for fact. Sometimes money isn't everything. You need an element of skill as well. If you gave me some shitty ingredients to make a meal and you gave Gordon Ramsey those same ingredients and told him to do the same, who do you think would make the better food? 

For the record I sincerely hope I'm wrong and Lennon turns out to be a world beater, but to ridicule people for wanting a change or criticising him considering his record is unfair imo.

Bwfc1958 wrote:

It's all well and good telling people to pick out what he's doing wrong and what to change, which people have done btw! 

Where though?

I think what you mean is people have mentioned here and there that they'd maybe do this and they wouldn't do that.

But we could bring in any manager in the world and nobody would agree with each and every singular decision. So realistically people will always have at least one or two little excuses for pinning it on the manager when everything turns to shit.

I mean what exactly is it that people don't agree with that could be changed substantially under a different manager? Is he too negative? Too gung ho? In the past managers have stunk the place out either by being blatantly too defensive every match, or just mindlessly attack minded.

Can you honestly say hand on heard that you think Lennon is a clueless man, or is it more that the team is just utter shite and Lennon is naturally the one to blame?

That's a bit of a false argument in my view.

Lennon may not be a complete stump but he's looking like he hasn't got the particular skill set necessary to sort our problems out.

He may well manage some other team in future where he's given the resources required to make his plan work.

He's certainly not had it at Bolton but that's beyond being a moot point now: What we need is a manager who can effect the changes necessary to keep us up, pure and simple.

So if he can't do it, we need a new manager.

It's got nothing to do with what people think of Lennon or the fans being fickle and blaming the manager at the first opportunity - it's about what we need to do to avoid relegation.

And the facts are that (for whatever reason) Lennon ain't doing it and looks incapable of learning quickly enough on the job to be able to do it.

If we had the luxury of time on our side it'd be a different story but it's March next week, so time's one thing we ain't got.

The difference between this season and last? Mjallby has gone. Lennon is an excellent front man, but I suspect that the success in Scotland was largely due to Lennon taking the brunt of the media interest allowing Mjallby to drill the squad. Obviously no proof but circumstantial evidence tends to support it.

But Bread we surely have to determine whether somebody with that skill set does in fact exist and is within our grasp.
I'm looking at the players available and thinking "how many combinations of eleven are there even to pick from there?"
I'm not so much asking "what has Lennon done wrong?" as I am "what could somebody else do right?"

Bread is spot on. It's all about staying in this division. If a new manager can come in and give us the bounce to win some games and maybe keep us up, then we can start again next season and with a little money thrown at it, whether that be loans or permanent signings, we can try and build from there, but id much rather that be in the championship than league 1. Sticking with Lennon and following him into league 1 just because you feel sorry for what he's had to work with is daft. The club is more important than any manager so it's just suicidal to stick with him at this point.

doffcocker wrote:But Bread we surely have to determine whether somebody with that skill set does in fact exist and is within our grasp.
I'm looking at the players available and thinking "how many combinations of eleven are there even to pick from there?"
I'm not so much asking "what has Lennon done wrong?" as I am "what could somebody else do right?"

I understand what you're getting at Doff, but that's like basically saying: "Oh well, there's no guarantee that someone else will be able to get our lot performing, so we might as well just give up now and accept that we're going down because there's no point throwing good money after bad without the guarantee of it working."

It's shit or bust time now for us so I think we should be doing whatever we can to give ourselves the best shot at staying up.

And if that means Sports Shield (or whoever does take over) splurging some of the budget on bringing in an experienced battler to replace Lennon, then so be it.

Lennon's track record in Scotland was very good but it's obviously been proven that it was a whole different ball game up there at Celtic.

Managing the only show in town where you had the pick of the best available talent is a million miles away from scrapping for survival with a well below average squad in the Championship.

I honestly think we're now at the point where we have no choice because we effectively brought in a plumber to rewire our house and are now counting the cost of doing so.

Yes, our wiring is old and isn't the best quality but standing there in your wellies with a sink plunger in your hands isn't going to help sort the problem, is it?

Bwfc1958 wrote:If a new manager can come in and give us the bounce to win some games and maybe keep us up...

Clearly that's a massive "if" since we seem to be establishing that there's not much any new manager could do different tactically.

To be fair, I'm willing to entertain the idea that all is not well behind the scenes and removing Lennon could be the start of a more positive atmosphere in the dressing room that might inspire a few better individual performances, and we might go on a run that keeps us up.

But what does that solve long term? It's basically just once again relying on a honeymoon period to keep us afloat for another year.

I think the fear of being a League One club might be ruling some people's heads. Would it be any further from the clubs best interests to go down under Lennon and potentially rebuild, than it would be to stay up under a new manager and risk being back in the exact same position in a years time?

This is the problem with all of our opinions Doff. You're right in saying that it's a big if, and it might not work long term, but in your post above you use the words 'potentially rebuild'. What if we get relegated, Lennon still can't do a job, and we are stuck in the lower divisions for the foreseeable? 

It's all complete guesswork but I believe a new manager is the best option we have at this moment in time.

The whole point of my post was to point out the total ineptness of the man, 5 wins in over 60 games, 4 wins in total this season, and his totally baffling decisions, take last night for instance, Clough playing as a lone striker will never work, Dervite gets injured, a good manager who had a regular defender on the bench would have used the defender, not Lennon, he brings Danns on and pushes Vela back, thus fucking our midfield up while a defender sits on bench, we were chasing the game, and going off his own words didn't show any cutting edge up top, yet he changed nothing until 5 minutes from time, a good manager would have had the foresight to change it earlier, I could go on but as MEIN FUHRER points out, nothing I say will change things, just pissed off with Lennons ineptness.

Bwfc1958 wrote:What if we get relegated, Lennon still can't do a job, and we are stuck in the lower divisions for the foreseeable? 

If we go down and Lennon gets the chance to rebuild and we don't look like coming back up, then course there'd be a strong case to get rid.

What I'm saying is that ultimately we might have to take that chance with somebody, whether it's Lennon, the guy after, or the guy after him. Because every time we sack a manager, his replacement gets even less money to work with, and as a result, the squad keeps getting smaller and ultimately crapper.

Wouldn't you rather just face the possibility now instead of us just keep delaying what is arguably inevitable?

If and when we do go down perhaps the best option would be to bring someone like Phil Brown in, even though I like Lennon I think Browns experience of League One will help us gain promotion back to the championship at the first time of asking.

Don't really want Brownie. Another one with a messy private life.

Let me make it simple for you gobshites.

It's the end of the day and you walk into your local pie shop. They only have two things left:

1) A cold meat pie for 85p
2) A steaming pile of shit for free

You only have 55p in your pocket. You are hungry but realise eating the free shit will be bad for you.

So you stay hungry.