F.A.O Doffcocker

Natasha Whittam wrote:Let me make it simple for you gobshites.

It's the end of the day and you walk into your local pie shop. They only have two things left:

1) A cold meat pie for 85p
2) A steaming pile of shit for free

You only have 55p in your pocket. You are hungry but realise eating the free shit will be bad for you.

So you stay hungry.

What the hell is this shit?

Here I am with my very own thread, the least I expected from you was a tirade of abuse about what a disgrace and all round knob you think I am.

Instead you turn up at half 2 and start rambling on about meat pies.

Disappointing from Whittam.

doffcocker wrote:

What the hell is this shit?

Here I am with my very own thread, the least I expected from you was a tirade of abuse about what a disgrace and all round knob you think I am.

Instead you turn up at half 2 and start rambling on about meat pies.

Disappointing from Whittam.

Clearly I was too subtle for you, you fucking disgrace and all round knob.

When you judge Lennon, judge him on the players he's signed. All 22 of them have been shite. Eidur may be borderline but I don't think anyone could argue he's made a single good signing.

And that was the point of my post.

Yes, but the message I took from your little analogy was that Lennon shouldn't have brought anybody  in at all.

(Didn't have enough for a decent pie, so went for the pile of shite because it was all he could afford, despite knowing it'd make him ill. Lesson: Don't eat shit.)

So he's a bad manager and he may or may not eat shit.

But how would not signing anybody have worked?

We'd be down to about 8 players by now.

I'd like to think Lennon would be good in the longer term but just as there is no evidence that anyone else could do better with this squad equally there is no evidence that he has tried all the options available to him. He hasn't.
He seems to be very dogmatic about his system and selections (ok - he's reluctantly tried a few new faces for short periods) and seems unwilling to change things mid-game. But above all it's his lack of imagination that is in evidence.
We lose week upon week so eventually you'd think that he'd realise that the same old shit ain't good enough and serious and radical changes have to be made - even if it's to put a rocket up the arse of his regulars.
I don't like changing managers mid season and we can't afford to do it anyway, but those that argue for change have a fair point and should be allowed to make it.

Bottom line? Lennon has shown us nothing to demonstrate he's up to the job.

wanderlust wrote:I'd like to think Lennon would be good in the longer term but just as there is no evidence that anyone else could do better with this squad equally there is no evidence that he has tried all the options available to him. He hasn't.
He seems to be very dogmatic about his system and selections (ok - he's reluctantly tried a few new faces for short periods) and seems unwilling to change things mid-game. But above all it's his lack of imagination that is in evidence.
We lose week upon week so eventually you'd think that he'd realise that the same old shit ain't good enough and serious and radical changes have to be made - even if it's to put a rocket up the arse of his regulars.
I don't like changing managers mid season and we can't afford to do it anyway, but those that argue for change have a fair point and should be allowed to make it.

Bottom line? Lennon has shown us nothing to demonstrate he's up to the job.

 Good point, well said.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

When you judge Lennon, judge him on the players he's signed. All 22 of them have been shite.

They haven't. And like I said yesterday, a good few of them are players that are still learning the tricks of the trade, like Holding and Osede. Even Amos, shit as he has been, still has time on his side to develop. I know at the moment it's of little consolation, but bringing in young players on the cheap should be the way forward for a club like us.

As for the rest, just look at the calibre, and make up your own mind as to the sort of wages he's been allowed to attract people to the club. Stephen Dobbie, for crying out loud, although even he you can't say has been completely useless.
People keep talking about "Lennon not being able to work on a low budget" as though there are only two kinds of budgets; high and low. Well there's not, it's all relative really and it's pretty clear just how crap Lennon's got it compared to 90%+ of the league.

Clowns like you talk like there's some secret 30 goal a season striker just waiting to be snapped up from League Two.

doffcocker wrote:

They haven't. And like I said yesterday, a good few of them are players that are still learning the tricks of the trade, like Holding and Osede. Even Amos, shit as he has been, still has time on his side to develop. I know at the moment it's of little consolation, but bringing in young players on the cheap should be the way forward for a club like us.

As for the rest, just look at the calibre, and make up your own mind as to the sort of wages he's been allowed to attract people to the club. Stephen Dobbie, for crying out loud, although even he you can't say has been completely useless.
People keep talking about "Lennon not being able to work on a low budget" as though there are only two kinds of budgets; high and low. Well there's not, it's all relative really and it's pretty clear just how crap Lennon's got it compared to 90%+ of the league.

Clowns like you talk like there's some secret 30 goal a season striker just waiting to be snapped up from League Two.

I haven't read such shite since your last post.

Holding was at the club long before Lennon was appointed and I'd say Osede was possibly the worst signing of all. He has been terrible, really terrible. Dobbie, Heskey, Wilson, Madine, Twardzik and all the other useless tugboats have been almost as bad.

The fact is not a single player signed by Lennon has been 'good' or even 'average'.

And that was the point of my meat pie post. He didn't have to sign this shite, but he chose to. Whether that's because he thought they were good players or was just bulking out the squad doesn't really matter - either way it's been a disaster.

There are average or slightly above average players out there available for next to nothing - with Lennon in charge we will never find them.

MartinBWFC wrote:

wanderlust wrote:I'd like to think Lennon would be good in the longer term but just as there is no evidence that anyone else could do better with this squad equally there is no evidence that he has tried all the options available to him. He hasn't.
He seems to be very dogmatic about his system and selections (ok - he's reluctantly tried a few new faces for short periods) and seems unwilling to change things mid-game. But above all it's his lack of imagination that is in evidence.
We lose week upon week so eventually you'd think that he'd realise that the same old shit ain't good enough and serious and radical changes have to be made - even if it's to put a rocket up the arse of his regulars.
I don't like changing managers mid season and we can't afford to do it anyway, but those that argue for change have a fair point and should be allowed to make it.

Bottom line? Lennon has shown us nothing to demonstrate he's up to the job.

 Good point, well said.

Ha ha, you mean it vaguely reads "Lennon isn't very good" so it's good enough for you.

Bit confused to be honest how wanderlust could be as supportive as he seemed towards Freedman, yet so unsympathetic towards Lennon who's clearly inherited a smaller squad and had less money to spend on it.

Perhaps I misinterpreted the posts at the time. Please enlighten me Wanderlust.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Dobbie, Heskey, Wilson, Madine, Twardzik and all the other useless tugboats have been almost as bad.

The fact is not a single player signed by Lennon has been 'good' or even 'average'.

And that was the point of my meat pie post. He didn't have to sign this shite, but he chose to. Whether that's because he thought they were good players or was just bulking out the squad doesn't really matter - either way it's been a disaster.

Are you saying that if he hadn't signed these players at all we'd be no worse off?

I'm as underwhelmed by the likes of Madine, Heskey, Dobbie as anyone, but to say we haven't needed them at all would be bollocks. If you think we could have signed a few better players instead at the same cost, well we could certainly speculate. Do you have any mind?

MartinBWFC wrote:

wanderlust wrote:I'd like to think Lennon would be good in the longer term but just as there is no evidence that anyone else could do better with this squad equally there is no evidence that he has tried all the options available to him. He hasn't.
He seems to be very dogmatic about his system and selections (ok - he's reluctantly tried a few new faces for short periods) and seems unwilling to change things mid-game. But above all it's his lack of imagination that is in evidence.
We lose week upon week so eventually you'd think that he'd realise that the same old shit ain't good enough and serious and radical changes have to be made - even if it's to put a rocket up the arse of his regulars.
I don't like changing managers mid season and we can't afford to do it anyway, but those that argue for change have a fair point and should be allowed to make it.

Bottom line? Lennon has shown us nothing to demonstrate he's up to the job.

 Good point, well said.

But all the same accusations were made about Dougie Freedman, so the question then comes is it British Managers who are at fault? Should the next one be a continental manager - fook it, we will get Mourinhio in did well at Chelsea didn't he? I mean last dozen matches, he turned the side round didn't he? oh er perhaps not.

Lennon realises that the same old 'shit' aren't good enough, however there isn't much choice other than go to youth and Phil Brown wouldn't do that. Phil Brown said in one radio interview that playing 50% youth will get you relegated - in fact he wouldn't play any youth at all.

We all know we need a clear out, and the best person to do that right now is Lennon in the summer. Deano hasn't been around enough to know which players to get rid of. A new manager will just end up giving everyone a chance again and things won't change. I think we need to keep Lennon until the summer. Let him put the leavers list in then sack him.

You're super optimistic if you think we can get out of this mess. Think people will have to get use to life in League One - we're there

doffcocker wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Dobbie, Heskey, Wilson, Madine, Twardzik and all the other useless tugboats have been almost as bad.

The fact is not a single player signed by Lennon has been 'good' or even 'average'.

And that was the point of my meat pie post. He didn't have to sign this shite, but he chose to. Whether that's because he thought they were good players or was just bulking out the squad doesn't really matter - either way it's been a disaster.

Are you saying that if he hadn't signed these players at all we'd be no worse off?

I'm as underwhelmed by the likes of Madine, Heskey, Dobbie as anyone, but to say we haven't needed them at all would be bollocks. If you think we could have signed a few better players instead at the same cost, well we could certainly speculate. Do you have any mind?

There aren't any and that's how Lennon's avoided my ire for so long.

It was obvious last Summer when Sloppy Knickers was telling us that "the club would find the money to sign ALF" and then didn't, that the only players available to Lennon would be the ones nobody else wanted.

Like Madine and that kid from Carlisle that we tried signing, who killed those pensioners with his car.

So it would have taken a spectacular manager to assemble a decent team in the circumstances, not someone who'd never worked in that environment before.

That's why I've given him time but enough's enough now.

He's proved that he's not the man we need in my view.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

doffcocker wrote:

They haven't. And like I said yesterday, a good few of them are players that are still learning the tricks of the trade, like Holding and Osede. Even Amos, shit as he has been, still has time on his side to develop. I know at the moment it's of little consolation, but bringing in young players on the cheap should be the way forward for a club like us.

As for the rest, just look at the calibre, and make up your own mind as to the sort of wages he's been allowed to attract people to the club. Stephen Dobbie, for crying out loud, although even he you can't say has been completely useless.
People keep talking about "Lennon not being able to work on a low budget" as though there are only two kinds of budgets; high and low. Well there's not, it's all relative really and it's pretty clear just how crap Lennon's got it compared to 90%+ of the league.

Clowns like you talk like there's some secret 30 goal a season striker just waiting to be snapped up from League Two.

I haven't read such shite since your last post.

Holding was at the club long before Lennon was appointed and I'd say Osede was possibly the worst signing of all. He has been terrible, really terrible. Dobbie, Heskey, Wilson, Madine, Twardzik and all the other useless tugboats have been almost as bad.

The fact is not a single player signed by Lennon has been 'good' or even 'average'.

And that was the point of my meat pie post. He didn't have to sign this shite, but he chose to. Whether that's because he thought they were good players or was just bulking out the squad doesn't really matter - either way it's been a disaster.

There are average or slightly above average players out there available for next to nothing - with Lennon in charge we will never find them.

I agree with the last two paragraphs. Think if you went into the National League you would find a lot of talented footballers and you wouldn't have had to pay as much for them - in wages etc

wanderlust wrote:I'd like to think Lennon would be good in the longer term but just as there is no evidence that anyone else could do better with this squad equally there is no evidence that he has tried all the options available to him. He hasn't.
He seems to be very dogmatic about his system and selections (ok - he's reluctantly tried a few new faces for short periods) and seems unwilling to change things mid-game. But above all it's his lack of imagination that is in evidence.
We lose week upon week so eventually you'd think that he'd realise that the same old shit ain't good enough and serious and radical changes have to be made - even if it's to put a rocket up the arse of his regulars.
I don't like changing managers mid season and we can't afford to do it anyway, but those that argue for change have a fair point and should be allowed to make it.

Bottom line? Lennon has shown us nothing to demonstrate he's up to the job.

Lennon is a man for a clubthat has loads of money to throw at football. That ain't us

doffcocker wrote:

Are you saying that if he hadn't signed these players at all we'd be no worse off?

I'm as underwhelmed by the likes of Madine, Heskey, Dobbie as anyone, but to say we haven't needed them at all would be bollocks. If you think we could have signed a few better players instead at the same cost, well we could certainly speculate. Do you have any mind?

We would definitely be better off.

Marc Richards, Billy Kee, Craig Mackail-Smith and Izale McLeod were all available at some point over the Summer. Can you honestly say they wouldn't have scored more goals than Madine or Heskey?

Everyone knew Madine would be shit, maybe even you, yet Lennon thought he would be the answer.

Seriously, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest Lennon could be trusted to buy a player.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

doffcocker wrote:

Are you saying that if he hadn't signed these players at all we'd be no worse off?

I'm as underwhelmed by the likes of Madine, Heskey, Dobbie as anyone, but to say we haven't needed them at all would be bollocks. If you think we could have signed a few better players instead at the same cost, well we could certainly speculate. Do you have any mind?

We would definitely be better off.

Marc Richards, Billy Kee, Craig Mackail-Smith and Izale McLeod were all available at some point over the Summer. Can you honestly say they wouldn't have scored more goals than Madine or Heskey?

Everyone knew Madine would be shit, maybe even you, yet Lennon thought he would be the answer.

Seriously, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest Lennon could be trusted to buy a player.

You can add Billy Sharp to that list too.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Marc Richards, Billy Kee, Craig Mackail-Smith and Izale McLeod were all available at some point over the Summer.

So basically a long list of players who have never proved more prolific above League One than Madine.

Excellent Whittam, we need you as chief scout.

doffcocker wrote:

So basically a long list of players who have never proved more prolific above League One than Madine.

Excellent Whittam, we need you as chief scout.

No, you asked if we'd be worse off with other players. I picked 4 players from League 2 who will be on a fraction of Madine's wages and could do a similar job.

I think that after last nights fiasco Lennon has lost the plot. The team he put out was extremely negative and even when we went behind he did nothing to change it until 6 minutes to go! In the position we are in we have to go for it in games and not just sit back and hope for a 0-0 draw. 

Would it have really mattered if we gave it a good go and got beat 2-0 or 3-0? He seems almost scared to change things.

Lennon strikes me as the type of manager/guy who's great to be around when things are going well but an absolute nightmare if he's up against it. When he first came in his enthusiasm was infectious, he'd be on the edge of his area screaming instructions, praising good work and raging at the ref all game. Now he only does the latter, spending most of his time slumped back in his chair looking like he'd rather be at home.

My opinion is that some of the players don't want to play for him, I'd guess that's most of the senior first teamers and from there it's difficult for a manager to turn it around. Maybe if he had millions to spend on new faces he could but as Nat says there's little evidence he can spot a player at this level and even less to say he can get the best out of them.

Says the rights things in the press but I think he lost it some time ago and has been sinking slowly ever since.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

doffcocker wrote:

So basically a long list of players who have never proved more prolific above League One than Madine.

Excellent Whittam, we need you as chief scout.

No, you asked if we'd be worse off with other players. I picked 4 players from League 2 who will be on a fraction of Madine's wages and could do a similar job.

Assuming they are on a fraction of Madine's wages, don't you think that is on the basis that we're talking about League 2 clubs? Clearly if Craig Mickail Smith (who's scored a whopping 4 in 29 for Luton) gets a ring off Bolton, he's gonna push for a fair bit more than he would with a club like Luton.

And I suspect this is why we've got Madine. Lennon has clearly picked him out of a list of players that could just about do a job for us, but who'd also be surprised to get any interest from a Championship club. The idea was to pick up a turd and hope it could be polished, Madine being the turd, Lennon being the polish. Has it worked miracles? No. Has it worked out worse than anybody (Lennon included) expected? Probably not.