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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Bury expelled from EFL

Bury expelled from EFL

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Ten Bobsworth
wanderlust
Hip Priest
rammywhite
terenceanne
Hipster_Nebula
xmiles
luckyPeterpiper
boltonbonce
karlypants
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21Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Thu Aug 29 2019, 00:28

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

The EFL are a joke. From all accounts Bury had three accepted offers to choose from and could have easily had something in place within 24 hours that would have avoided the widespread misery and anguish that their ridiculously rash and harsh decision has caused. That daft bint from the EFL Debbie Jeavons has just made the situation even worse with her idiotic and callous comments in TV interviews today. I really hope the protests of the Bury fans and others can force the EFL to look at their premature decision again and grant them a chance to prove they can sell the club quickly and turn their fortunes around.

22Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Thu Aug 29 2019, 01:07

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Hip Priest wrote:The EFL are a joke. From all accounts Bury had three accepted offers to choose from and could have easily had something in place within 24 hours that would have avoided the widespread misery and anguish that their ridiculously rash and harsh decision has caused. That daft bint from the EFL Debbie Jeavons has just made the situation even worse with her idiotic and callous comments in TV interviews today. I really hope the protests of the Bury fans and others can force the EFL to look at their premature decision again and grant them a chance to prove they can sell the club quickly and turn their fortunes around.
Yep! Couldn’t agree more. I did mention her interview on Granada reports in the club has been sold thread.

I just couldn’t believe her comments either saying that the EFL will learn from the mistakes they have made etc etc.

They really are pathetic.

23Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Thu Aug 29 2019, 11:40

luckyPeterpiper

luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

The problem doesn't really lie with the EFL guys. It's down to a number of factors some of which I've mentioned before. One is the sheer number of professional football clubs in the North West, specifically those in and around Manchester. Just off the top of my head there's us, Wigan, Salford, Oldham, Rochdale, Bury and of course United and City. There's simply no way all those clubs in that small an area can operate at a profit given how expensive a club is to run now.

It's my honest opinion that sooner or later some of the smaller clubs will have to consider merging in order to survive much less compete. We've all seen what happened to the likes of Leeds United and Portsmouth, we saw Maidstone, Aldershot, Rushden and Diamonds and even Glasgow Rangers actually get liquidated. It's partly down to bad management, partly down to the ridiculous gulf between the haves and have nots and partly down to the utterly useless 'fit and proper person' test that seems almost designed to let chancers and clowns own football clubs they clearly have no idea how to run.

In truth for football to survive, especially in the modern internet age it needs to adapt and one possible way is to follow the NFL and MLS model in the US. In both those leagues ALL television revenue is split equally between ALL the teams regardless of their finishing position or number of games televised. (at least it was two years ago and I haven't found anything to say it's changed or changing). It's a rock solid income stream that every club can bank on and budget with because the Leagues themselves insisted on that. While it wouldn't solve every problem the smaller clubs have it would go a long way to help prevent another Bury.

24Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Thu Aug 29 2019, 23:13

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Seems if I'm understanding this correctly it was all fraudulent and no wonder the EFL could not sanction any sale.

To simplify,

Day sold the club for £1 to Dale.

Day owned a number of companies called Menderco one of which had put money into Bury. Menderco went out of business soon after the sale to Day

Dale didn't pay anyone and basically offered everyone other than Football creditors and presumably secured creditors if they had any (I've not looked to see) a deal where he would pay them 25p in the pound for their debts. This is called a Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA)

An Insolvency Practitioner (Steven Wineglass) was brought in to verify and total up all the claims one of which was from a company called RCR Holdings Ltd and claimed they had bought the Menderco debt for the money they had put into Bury, which they stated was for £7.1m.

The amount of this sum was so large that the company had enough voting rights to help secure the CVA.

Twenty five percent of RCR Holdings entitled them to £1.75m

So far so good?

Anyway Dale refuses to sell Bury via the CVA until the very last second and when somebody did get to do a forensic audit they found some rather odd things.

The first was that RCR Holdings was only formed two days before the vital CVA vote.

The second was that its owner was Dale's son-in-law (well to be exact his daughters boyfriend)

Not only that the Administrator for Menderco states that he was unable to determine how much if anything Bury owed Menderco and sold the claim for just £70k.

No wonder Dale wouldn't sell, he clearly was looking for liquidation under Wineglass (who apparently had a bit of a chequered history with the professions regulators) and RCR Holdings making a tidy bit of profit!

How could anybody purchase the club in view of that?

And I guess the final nail in the coffin was that the newest bidder for the now deceased football club is a Pastor from Brazil!!!No surprise then to find that an Insolvency Investigation has been announced!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/29/bury-cva-investigation

25Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Fri Aug 30 2019, 11:12

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

How did Dale pass the fit and proper person test? He has a history of businesses going under. The EFL need to really look at this and make some changes to stop people like Dale buying clubs.

26Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Fri Aug 30 2019, 12:13

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

27Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Mon Oct 14 2019, 22:36

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Poor Bury look as though they will be liquidated on Wednesday.

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/17968148.bury-fc-future-real-doubt-potential-buyer-pulls/

28Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Tue Oct 15 2019, 01:16

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:Poor Bury look as though they will be liquidated on Wednesday.

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/17968148.bury-fc-future-real-doubt-potential-buyer-pulls/
Truly a sad day if it happens and a stark reminder of how close Anderson brought us to that fate.

29Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Wed Dec 18 2019, 14:54

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Bury: Winding-up petition over unpaid tax bill dismissed by High Court

A winding-up petition issued against Bury over an unpaid tax bill has been dismissed by the High Court.
The Shakers were expelled from the English Football League in August after failing to provide financial guarantees and the collapse of a takeover bid.
The club was previously given two weeks to allow the processing of tax returns to HM Revenue & Customs.
However, a lawyer for HMRC told the Insolvency and Companies Court that a debt had been paid.

No detail about the amount that Bury, who were promoted to League One last season, owed was given in court.
The club were previously given a 35-day extension in October, with their lawyers arguing that they needed time to establish whether they had paid too much tax.
The Shakers appeared to be on the brink of liquidation after a prospective buyer ended their interest in October.
However, they previously argued they continued to automatically pay tax on wages that have not, in fact, been paid to staff.
Meanwhile, the North West Counties League confirmed it has received an application from a newly-formed club called Bury AFC for membership commencing at the start of the 2020-21 season.
A group of fans behind the formation of a phoenix club announced on Tuesday that they have applied to join the NWCL, which is the ninth and 10th tier of the English football pyramid.
The phoenix club is unaffiliated with the original Bury FC.
A NWCL statement said: "The league will be working with the club, the Football Association and other interested parties in progressing the application.
"At this stage, we are reviewing the application and supporting documents.
"The league's board of directors will meet to discuss the application and whether, as this is an application from a newly-formed club, to support the application ahead of the FA deadline of 1 February, 2020."

What does this mean for Bury now?

Bury Football Club, founded in 1885, still exists despite the fact they do not currently have a league to play in.
Wednesday's dismissal in the High Court gave them a reprieve, however, this is not necessarily the end of a drawn-out saga which has left fans in the dark as to where the club goes next and in what form.
On 18 July, creditors approved a company voluntary arrangement (CVA), which was proposed to help settle some of the club's debts.
The CVA temporarily froze those debts, but this arrangement will expire in January, leading the way for creditors to then issue another winding-up petition if they wish.
In the meantime, businessman Robert Benwell is to address supporters on Thursday with his plans to "bring football back to Bury", with one of the options being starting the club again if it goes into liquidation.
Should this happen, the Bury FC name could be retained and they could make an application to rejoin the English football pyramid next season - possibly at National League level, as has been proposed in the time since their expulsion from the EFL.
A phoenix club named Bury AFC have also made plans to enter lower down the pyramid but, depending on what happens next with the current Bury FC, they may step aside.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50837015

Robert Benwell -

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/18098351.potential-bury-fc-investor-outlines-plans-new-shakers-gigg-lane/

30Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Wed Dec 18 2019, 15:05

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Bury AFC isn’t Bury so although they (Bury)  may still exist as a business they don’t exist as an operating business. If that was to change in the future and Bury were accepted into a league where would that leave Bury AFC?  Two clubs in the town?

31Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Fri Feb 21 2020, 15:28

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Bury AFC isn’t Bury so although they (Bury)  may still exist as a business they don’t exist as an operating business. If that was to change in the future and Bury were accepted into a league where would that leave Bury AFC?  Two clubs in the town?

Just seen this.

Towns aren't limited to one club you nutjob we had Horwich RMI in Bolton for many years before they moved to Leigh, which is part of Wigan who also had an existing football club.

Even places much smaller than Bury have two clubs, Northwich (20k population) for instance who both even play in the same league!

Anyway the reason for the post is that Bury AFC are now being officially considered for a league spot. -

Bury AFC among 11 clubs applying for North West Counties League spot

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51584394

32Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Fri Feb 21 2020, 23:26

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I grew up in Horwich and always said it was near Bolton rather than part of Bolton.  Remember the pitch was sloped but always wanted to play a game on it

33Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Sat Feb 22 2020, 00:42

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

BoltonTillIDie wrote:I grew up in Horwich and always said it was near Bolton rather than part of Bolton.  Remember the pitch was sloped but always wanted to play a game on it

Horwich has been part of Bolton's administration as per the Local Government Act of 1972, which was took effect from 1st April, 1974.

The same act put Leigh under Wigan's, much to the displeasure of the former.

The pitch you remember was called Grundy Hill and was sold off to build houses on in 1994. Hope they sorted the slope out first before building them though!

My point was that many town's, city's and 'villages' have more than one team in them, Manchester being an obvious example with City and FC United (Manchester United being part of Salford of course, who also don't forget have another club which we almost certainly will be playing next season - Salford City).

I guess you can have as many teams as you like from any city, town or village providing they all meet the EFL's entry requirements and ongoing requirements.

34Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Sat Feb 22 2020, 09:04

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

I'd love to see FC Isle of Man in the North West Counties. Hope they get there and do well.
I first went to the Island in 1961 with some Wanderers supporting pals and have had a strong affection for the place ever since.

35Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Sat Feb 22 2020, 11:56

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:Bury AFC isn’t Bury so although they (Bury)  may still exist as a business they don’t exist as an operating business. If that was to change in the future and Bury were accepted into a league where would that leave Bury AFC?  Two clubs in the town?

Just seen this.

Towns aren't limited to one club you nutjob we had Horwich RMI in Bolton for many years before they moved to Leigh, which is part of Wigan who also had an existing football club.

Even places much smaller than Bury have two clubs, Northwich (20k population) for instance who both even play in the same league!

Anyway the reason for the post is that Bury AFC are now being officially considered for a league spot. -

Bury AFC among 11 clubs applying for North West Counties League spot

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51584394
You nutjob? Really?

Yes I know you can have more then one club in one town/city/village etc. I was alluding to the implications of that scenario rather than suggesting it wasn't possible.

36Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Tue Jul 21 2020, 17:37

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Bury 'Phoenix' club accepted into North West counties - the old 'original' club attempting for the conference (National) league.



37Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Tue Jul 21 2020, 17:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:I'd love to see FC Isle of Man in the North West Counties. Hope they get there and do well.
I first went to the Island in 1961 with some Wanderers supporting pals and have had a strong affection for the place ever since.

Isle of Man joins too!

38Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Sat Aug 08 2020, 13:34

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Bit of an update on 'official' Bury - not the phoenix club 'Bury'.

Bury FC's application to join non league pyramid is turned down

BURY FC have been denied the chance to rejoin the non-league pyramid for the upcoming season, the Football Association has announced.

The Shakers were evicted from the English Football League after the start of last season due to financial insolvency, leaving League One with only 23 clubs.

A phoenix club, Bury AFC, were last month accepted into the North-West Counties League Division One North while the original Bury FC, a Football League member since 1894, had applied to rejoin the National League system.

An FA statement read: "The FA can confirm that Bury FC's application to join the National League System (NLS) for the 2020-21 season has not been accepted.

"The Alliance Leagues Committee's decision not to accept the application was based on several different factors, including in relation to the club's financial resources, ownership and insolvency status."

"The FA left the door open for the club to rejoin in the future if their financial issues are addressed, acknowledging their 'history and standing', and added: "The Alliance Leagues Committee would welcome an application from the club to join the NLS for the 2021-22 season."

It means Bury AFC, the phoenix club, will be the only team playing in the town's name next season having been accepted to play in the North West Counties League.

It is a bitter blow for the Bury FC supporters’ trust Forever Bury who were fighting to bring football back to Gigg Lane.

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/18636487.bury-fcs-application-join-non-league-pyramid-turned/

There is much more in the link if anyone is interested - worth a read if you are.

39Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Mon Nov 02 2020, 20:50

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Someone asked me today if Bury went bust and I didn't know the answer.

Did they, or do they still exist?

40Bury expelled from EFL - Page 2 Empty Re: Bury expelled from EFL Mon Nov 02 2020, 21:02

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Natasha Whittam wrote:Someone asked me today if Bury went bust and I didn't know the answer.

Did they, or do they still exist?

On paper at least they still exist.

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