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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Derby County and other clubs - Administration Thread

Derby County and other clubs - Administration Thread

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Ten Bobsworth
Sluffy
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Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Bit of a basket club apparently over the last few years but it seems their time as run out and are entering Admin claiming Covid losses being the final straw.

More here -  

Derby County: Championship club file notice to appoint administrators

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58604851



Last edited by Sluffy on Sun May 22 2022, 18:56; edited 1 time in total

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Not entirely surprised by this, Sluffy. I'd taken a shufti at Derby's accounts on a few occasions. Do you remember the tale of the three amigos. That was really interesting.

Not much sign of questionable accounting at BWFC other than the glossing over of certain transactions related to the Holdsworth/Anderson dispute. Isn't it interesting though how the Guardian, the Beeno and the ST never showed any interest in how much went to Holdsworth or how much he cost the club?

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Not entirely surprised by this, Sluffy. I'd taken a shufti at Derby's accounts on a few occasions. Do you remember the tale of the three amigos. That was really interesting.

Not much sign of questionable accounting at BWFC other than the glossing over of certain transactions related to the Holdsworth/Anderson dispute. Isn't it interesting though how the Guardian, the Beeno and the ST never showed any interest in how much went to Holdsworth or how much he cost the club?

Thanks Bob, I'd never bothered much with other clubs so I hadn't known about the three amigos but have since read this (link below) that explains all about them - but more interestingly to me - why our ST obviously saw similarities to Anderson and took the opportunity to set themselves up and tried, so, so hard, to bring him down and get get control of the club for themselves.

Remember the ST was formed AFTER the time Trevor Birch took over from Phil Gartside and seemingly were led to believe by Birch they were going to get the club by becoming the preferred bidder.

Clearly that wasn't what Eddie Davies wanted!

Reading the article though and its references to Chesterfield and Portsmouth, I now begin to see why Birch clearly thought ST's seemed to be a more 'honest' route out of Admin for such football clubs.

He clearly didn't know our leading ST founders with a series of companies they own struck off at Companies House, which were more reminiscent of the three amigos past history.

Seems to me our ST saw a second bite of the cherry when Holdsworth got the club and spun a tale about Anderson - neglecting to mention his murky BluMarble deal and the how he pocketed a considerable sum out of it before what was left found its way into the club accounts - and why Anderson relationship with Holdsworth was poisoned from that point on.

Iles clearly believe Holdsworth and the ST and clearly didn't bother doing any fact checking to see if it was all true that he was being told by them!

So we have Holdsworth with his murky BluMarble dealings, want to be owners by the ST founders and numpty Iles on one side and all saying Anderson was the baddie in this - which it turns out now - he wasn't!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/22/david-conn-derby-county

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Its the fans i feel sorry for, we've been through it and it's horrible. Derby have been in trouble for a while now and trying to fiddle the accounts with over estimating their ground sale and the players values but as ever its the fans who suffer most with all this.

They'll get a 12 point deduction so are nailed on for relegation now. It will be interesting to see if Rooney stays around.

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:

Thanks Bob, I'd never bothered much with other clubs so I hadn't known about the three amigos but have since read this (link below) that explains all about them - but more interestingly to me - why our ST obviously saw similarities to Anderson and took the opportunity to set themselves up and tried, so, so hard, to bring him down and get get control of the club for themselves.

Remember the ST was formed AFTER the time Trevor Birch took over from Phil Gartside and seemingly were led to believe by Birch they were going to get the club by becoming the preferred bidder.

Clearly that wasn't what Eddie Davies wanted!

Reading the article though and its references to Chesterfield and Portsmouth, I now begin to see why Birch clearly thought ST's seemed to be a more 'honest' route out of Admin for such football clubs.

He clearly didn't know our leading ST founders with a series of companies they own struck off at Companies House, which were more reminiscent of the three amigos past history.

Seems to me our ST saw a second bite of the cherry when Holdsworth got the club and spun a tale about Anderson - neglecting to mention his murky BluMarble deal and the how he pocketed a considerable sum out of it before what was left found its way into the club accounts - and why Anderson relationship with Holdsworth was poisoned from that point on.

Iles clearly believe Holdsworth and the ST and clearly didn't bother doing any fact checking to see if it was all true that he was being told by them!

So we have Holdsworth with his murky BluMarble dealings, want to be owners by the ST founders and numpty Iles on one side and all saying Anderson was the baddie in this - which it turns out now - he wasn't!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/22/david-conn-derby-county
I'm not sure I'd agree with all that analysis, Sluffy. There was a track record of failed companies but tbf the failures didn't seem to be akin to the three amigos activities.

I also know of no evidence that Holdsworth snaffled 20% of the £5million. I rather doubt that there ever was £5m at all. I believe Blumarble advanced only £4million but took security for £5million to cover interest and costs they might incur in trying to get their money back.

I expect Eddie agreed to that and also agreed to put up another £2.5m. I very much doubt that any of the money was ever Holdsworth's or Anderson's.

Iles imo was guilty of wilful blindness. Consumed with his vendetta against Anderson, he didn't want to know the facts or publish them. Anderson plainly had no time for Iles or the ST and I expect he would have made that clear in no uncertain terms.

I don't really know what Trevor Birch thought but if he ever thought the ST was credible, I doubt Eddie would have agreed with him.

Everything you've ever read about all this in the media seems to me to be riddled with prejudice and incompetence with a few dollops of untruth chucked into the pot for good measure.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:I'm not sure I'd agree with all that analysis, Sluffy. There was a track record of failed companies but tbf the failures didn't seem to be akin to the three amigos activities.

I also know of no evidence that Holdsworth snaffled 20% of the £5million. I rather doubt that there ever was £5m at all. I believe Blumarble advanced only £4million but took security for £5million to cover interest and costs they might incur in trying to get their money back.

I expect Eddie agreed to that and also agreed to put up another £2.5m. I very much doubt that any of the money was ever Holdsworth's or Anderson's.

Iles imo was guilty of wilful blindness. Consumed with his vendetta against Anderson, he didn't want to know the facts or publish them. Anderson plainly had no time for Iles or the ST and I expect he would have made that clear in no uncertain terms.

I don't really know what Trevor Birch thought but if he ever thought the ST was credible, I doubt Eddie would have agreed with him.

Everything you've ever read about all this in the media seems to me to be riddled with prejudice and incompetence with a few dollops of untruth chucked into the pot for good measure.

I don't know about the failed companies of the three, all I was doing was to reflect that the main two people involved in the ST had a string of companies struck off too!

As for Birch (and as far as I'm aware) he's the only Administrator to sell league  clubs to Supporters Trust's - Portsmouth and Hearts.  I also recall that the ST said that Birch invited them to apply for preferred bidder status.

Maybe he wanted them there as a plan B, rather than anything else - but the ST did apply for preferred bidder status.

Also don't forget fwiw, the ST even tried to torpedo Holdsworth's bid for ownership by going public with a list of 27 questions...

“In asking these questions we wish to highlight the potential risks that the club might face, not only to relegation to League One this year, but ensuring that the issue of stability is at the forefront of plans now. It would be wrong of us to blindly hope for the best.”

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/14317935.bolton-wanderers-supporters-trust-demands-financial-answers-as-ownership-battle-hangs-in-balance/

Seems to me they wanted to get their hands on the club - but I've no idea where they believed they had the financial wherewithal to be able to do it?

And remember this was said BEFORE Anderson had even come on to the scene!

I totally agree with you about the BluMarble loan (in fact it was your good self who explained this to me some while back) being £4m and £5m with interest for repayment but at least two of the Sports Shields accounts suddenly received funds in the region of around £500k about that time, of which Holdsworth paid himself £250k.

This was never explained by anyone although Anderson stated the terms BWFC were issued by Holdsworth's company for this loan (which had an eye watering interest rate attached) and he claimed that Dean had paid himself an extortionate amount for admin fees in setting up this loan.

Fwiw I think both the ST and Iles have belatedly distance themselves from Holdsworth as I'm surprised neither of them mentioned his recent Unibol Honorary Degree and Iles was awarded it in person at the uni and I find it difficult to believe the like of Iles or the ST didn't get wind of it, or if they didn't - make a point about tweeting their congratulations once they did.

Their silence is deafening to me after the years of support and free press they had BOTH given him!

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

You are right, Sluffy. BWFCST plainly did have ideas beyond its station in early 2016.  It still has but it was in an embrionic state at that time and there was a possibility that, with better leadership, it might have turned out to be more than a blind alley. I feel sure though that Eddie would always have seen them for what they were worth and given them very little credibility.

I expect Eddie would have viewed Dean Holdsworth in a similar light until Ken Anderson arrived on the scene. We don't know how that happened but it was in January 2016 according to KA.

KA had experience and skills that no-one else had and, in the absence of a wannabe owner with money to burn, Eddie must have concluded that backing Anderson (in a limited way) was a better option than Administration.

I suspect you are also correct about Iles and the ST now maintaining a low profile on Holdsworth but how on Earth did Unibol come up with the idea of awarding him an honorary doctorate?

The imprisonment of the three amigos at Derby must have sent shockwaves through football and acted as a dire warning and deterrent to anyone tempted to follow a similar path. 

The club's 2016 accounts, signed by both Holdsworth and Anderson, do disclose an amount of £250K paid to Sports Shield BWFC. It was described as being 'in relation to charges incurred by them in effecting the change of ownership'. It seems an extraordinarily large amount but why did Holdsworth expect a skint BWFC to pay SSBWFC's bills and pay him £240K p.a. to do a job probably beyond his capability?

The 'Sports Shield' acquisition of BWFC and all that preceded and followed it seemed to me be a monumental tale of journalistic negligence and prejudice. Yet thousands of Bolton supporters seemed to buy into it all with hardly anybody, except me and thee Sluffy, ever seemingly remotely bothered.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Mon Sep 20 2021, 09:26; edited 2 times in total

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Paul Merson makes a reasonable point here:

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/paul-merson-derby-county-administration-5936909

The same went for BWFC when Ken Anderson was trying to sell it with the Beeno, the ST and certain players seemingly doing there level best to chuck spanners in the works.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Just for interest - Derby have gone into Admin now - have a 12 points penalty and have the same administrators as Anderson used -

Andrew Hosking, Carl Jackson and Andrew Andronikou, managing directors at business advisory firm Quantuma, have been appointed joint administrators.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58649432

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:Just for interest - Derby have gone into Admin now - have a 12 points penalty and have the same administrators as Anderson used -

Andrew Hosking, Carl Jackson and Andrew Andronikou, managing directors at business advisory firm Quantuma, have been appointed joint administrators.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58649432
There was nothing at all to criticise Quantuma for at Bolton so far as I could see, Sluffy. They seemed to get the Bolton Whites Hotel appointment because they'd done a decent job for Blumarble.

Derby haven't filed accounts since 2018 but they were spending more than three times as much on wages as Bolton was in its last published accounts. I wonder how many noticed or didn't notice.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Paul Aldridge helping out at Derby according to Nixon -

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:Paul Aldridge helping out at Derby according to Nixon -

Good on 'im but how come Nicko's always first to the ball?

Aldridge did a good job in difficult circumstances at BWFC, so far as I can see Sluffy. I expect his hourly rate was a lot less than the administrators and hope he's not still waiting to be paid for the money he was owed for sticking at it to the bitter end.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Latest on Derby and they seem to be in a bad way.

As I understand it the EFL will kick them out of the league if they can't prove they can fund the rest of the season by 1st Feb.

The big problem is that Wycombe and Boro are suing the club because with Derby doing dodgy stuff financially last season it meant they and not Boro got into the playoffs and that if they had the points deduction last season they would have been relegated not Wycombe.

The Administrators call these legal cases groundless and would not succeed but potential buyers of Derby want the claims settled before they buy the club - and all the while the clock is ticking!

This explains it all in more detail -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60043975

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Terrible what’s happening at Derby and the fans must be absolutely gutted, just as we were. I just hope things turn out well for them, it would be terrible to see a club like them lost forever.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

There are early signs that Burnley might be in trouble too.
Apparently Pace etc only fronted £30 million of their own money but borrowed £90 million and still owe the previous owner Garlick for his shares - and they've defaulted on the payments.
With relegation staring them in the face it looks like the money they got for Chris Woods won't be spent on a replacement and questions are emerging about the new owner's intentions.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

wanderlust wrote:There are early signs that Burnley might be in trouble too.
Apparently Pace etc only fronted £30 million of their own money but borrowed £90 million and still owe the previous owner Garlick for his shares - and they've defaulted on the payments.
With relegation staring them in the face it looks like the money they got for Chris Woods won't be spent on a replacement and questions are emerging about the new owner's intentions.

Update:

Just seen this

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

wanderlust wrote:

Update:

Just seen this
The Burnley takeover never did make sense so far as I could see. Have they got a Supporters Trust to step in like us? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Owners presumably seeking investors to recoup their own money and piss off leaving the club worse off and in trouble?
No f****** comment.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

There must be some degree of confidence in the takeover bids, but it's tricky for investors to know what they are buying now that the team has been further weakened in January and survival is looking less likely. Good luck to them.

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