Anyone else lost it?

When a team's doing bad and has a big wage bill people always put it down to the players having no passion and only giving a shit about the money, but with the exception of the obvious ones like Mears and Ngog, I don't see this at Bolton.

I wouldn't say this is a spineless team, just clueless, in terms of organisation.

I've had a season ticket for many years,this is back to the 80's feeling.Im not going tomorrow as I might as well sit in my lazy boy watching the FA Cup on BT or SKY or ITV.Id love N'Gog to go n DF(dumb  Fuka) be forced to play Tom Youngs or Connor Wilkinson,Bolger instead of Knight. Now I don't care,no excitement utterly apalling defending.3 home wins one in the Cup.I used to go mental when we scored and I was listening on the Radio if we were away.If we lost I didn't feel like eating.Now I don't care.As Breadman said it used to be a day out with the lads a few beers on the way standing,singing,now if you swear you are in danger of offending someone.I was told is their any need for that language at one match this season.I wasn't in the family stand I was in the East stand upper,upset some old dears.Now I don't swear normally but if u can't vent your frustration at the match after working all week and Zat shyte makes 2 shocking blunders what do you say ' unlucky son try harder' sterile atmosphere shit footy,Wanderers will always be my team and I can look back on our Euro adventures with fondness,Macedonia,Munich,Madrid,Lisbon but I'm just down and do not look forward to going to the match anymore.Hopefully the kids in the development squad will come through and change our fortunes.

I've lost a lot of passion for bolton this season, I witnessed every home game under Lee, Megson and Coyle and to be honest this season has been far the worst I have witnessed since becoming a season ticket holder.

I wouldn't put all blame down to Dougie as I think the players really do have a lot to answer for in terms of effort and commitment.

You'll get the passion back, as we get better, we are in a slump now and its hard to enjoy football, but when /if we ever get back- to playing ways, then i'm sure we'll end up enjoying our football again.

scottjames30 wrote:You'll get the passion back, as we get better, we are in a slump now and its hard to enjoy football, but when /if we ever get back- to playing ways, then i'm sure we'll end up enjoying our football again.

I hope so SJ - because like many others for me the love affair has dimmed.
I'm not going tomorrow- the first time I've deliberately missed a game in years.
I feel like I need to go to Confession to get forgiven. I've just got a better offer to go somewhere else.
I miss Manny road after a couple of pints in the Sweet Green.
Now its up the M61 hoping I can get parked up for free outside DFS- and then a 30 minute wait to get off the car park. Instead of being home for 5.30 - I'm often still stuck on the car park. Even with lower crowds it still seems to take as long.
I could put up with the nostalgia stuff- but when the football is tripe it really stretches your loyalty.
Like everyone else-I'm hoping for better days -

doffcocker wrote:When a team's doing bad and has a big wage bill people always put it down to the players having no passion and only giving a shit about the money, but with the exception of the obvious ones like Mears and Ngog, I don't see this at Bolton.

I wouldn't say this is a spineless team, just clueless, in terms of organisation.

Well, I did say we should have appointed Tony "hoofball" Pulis to propel us to the Premier League, but you Dan/Doffcocker shot me down and said "what has Tony Pulis ever achieved", well, I'll bet you £10 Doffcocker, that Pulis keeps Palace up this season.

Fancy a bet then?

Culcheth_White wrote:

doffcocker wrote:When a team's doing bad and has a big wage bill people always put it down to the players having no passion and only giving a shit about the money, but with the exception of the obvious ones like Mears and Ngog, I don't see this at Bolton.

I wouldn't say this is a spineless team, just clueless, in terms of organisation.

Well, I did say we should have appointed Tony "hoofball" Pulis to propel us to the Premier League, but you Dan/Doffcocker shot me down and said "what has Tony Pulis ever achieved", well, I'll bet you £10 Doffcocker, that Pulis keeps Palace up this season.

Fancy a bet then?

Oh Culcheth/Gary, you tinker.

I will have Pulis as my avatar for a week if he keeps Palace up.

doffcocker wrote:

Culcheth_White wrote:

doffcocker wrote:When a team's doing bad and has a big wage bill people always put it down to the players having no passion and only giving a shit about the money, but with the exception of the obvious ones like Mears and Ngog, I don't see this at Bolton.

I wouldn't say this is a spineless team, just clueless, in terms of organisation.

Well, I did say we should have appointed Tony "hoofball" Pulis to propel us to the Premier League, but you Dan/Doffcocker shot me down and said "what has Tony Pulis ever achieved", well, I'll bet you £10 Doffcocker, that Pulis keeps Palace up this season.

Fancy a bet then?

Oh Culcheth/Gary, you tinker.

I will have Pulis as my avatar for a week if he keeps Palace up.

That's a deal! Tony Pulis is the man and your avatar for one whole week!

Pulis has surprised me at Palace. Remembering the hatchet job his Stoke team did to our lads at Wembley I should have known better.

I didn't go to the match for ages, missed almost all of the noughties. When I decided to get a season ticket again I made myself some promises

1 Its only a game, like any fan I want my team to win and I love the atmosphere especially at away games but if we lose or play crap then I moan like fuck until I get to the car and then forget about it.

2 I refuse to let it run my weekend or evening if we lose and buzz off it all week if we win.

3 The money ain't my problem - If someone is willing to pay these dicks 20 grand a week then thats their decision but don't come moaning to me when your skint. The debt, I didn't borrow it, I didn't spend it and [thank fuck] I don't have to pay it back so Eddie that's your problem.

This football club has some difficult times ahead and things may well get worse before they get better but some of us have been here before and remember the thrill of fighting our way back up the divisions. For those that are too young to remember when we really were shit then times like these will test your faith and your patience but unless you know the dark days you never really appreciate the good ones.

Despite the efforts of this owner and board Bolton Wanderers will survive, as long there are a hardcore of fans to support it, you only had to see Coventry City fans at Arsenal tonight to see the passion that even "unfashionable" clubs command.

So when we have lost 7-1 or Zat Knight has cost us the game, just tell yourself its only a game, now who've we got next week, QPR away, piece of piss.

NickFazer wrote:I didn't go to the match for ages, missed almost all of the noughties. When I decided to get a season ticket again I made myself some promises

1 Its only a game, like any fan I want my team to win and I love the atmosphere especially at away games but if we lose or play crap then I moan like fuck until I get to the car and then forget about it.

2 I refuse to let it run my weekend or evening if we lose and buzz off it all week if we win.

3 The money ain't my problem - If someone is willing to pay these dicks 20 grand a week then thats their decision but don't come moaning to me when your skint. The debt, I didn't borrow it, I didn't spend it and [thank fuck] I don't have to pay it back so Eddie that's your problem.

This football club has some difficult times ahead and things may well get worse before they get better but some of us have been here before and remember the thrill of fighting our way back up the divisions. For those that are too young to remember when we really were shit then times like these will test your faith and your patience but unless you know the dark days you never really appreciate the good ones.

Despite the efforts of this owner and board Bolton Wanderers will survive, as long there are a hardcore of fans to support it, you only had to see Coventry City fans at Arsenal tonight to see the passion that even "unfashionable" clubs command.

So when we have lost 7-1 or Zat Knight has cost us the game, just tell yourself its only a game, now who've we got next week, QPR away, piece of piss.

It's posts like this that restore my faith in football. It's easy to call it a day when things are going wrong but it's fans like Nick who sum it up perfectly for me.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

NickFazer wrote:I didn't go to the match for ages, missed almost all of the noughties. When I decided to get a season ticket again I made myself some promises

1 Its only a game, like any fan I want my team to win and I love the atmosphere especially at away games but if we lose or play crap then I moan like fuck until I get to the car and then forget about it.

2 I refuse to let it run my weekend or evening if we lose and buzz off it all week if we win.

3 The money ain't my problem - If someone is willing to pay these dicks 20 grand a week then thats their decision but don't come moaning to me when your skint. The debt, I didn't borrow it, I didn't spend it and [thank fuck] I don't have to pay it back so Eddie that's your problem.

This football club has some difficult times ahead and things may well get worse before they get better but some of us have been here before and remember the thrill of fighting our way back up the divisions. For those that are too young to remember when we really were shit then times like these will test your faith and your patience but unless you know the dark days you never really appreciate the good ones.

Despite the efforts of this owner and board Bolton Wanderers will survive, as long there are a hardcore of fans to support it, you only had to see Coventry City fans at Arsenal tonight to see the passion that even "unfashionable" clubs command.

So when we have lost 7-1 or Zat Knight has cost us the game, just tell yourself its only a game, now who've we got next week, QPR away, piece of piss.

It's posts like this that restore my faith in football. It's easy to call it a day when things are going wrong but it's fans like Nick who sum it up perfectly for me.

  Loyalty to your club is a wonderful thing and necessary for them to go in the direction you want even though It can be very hard to keep summoning the will to go when times are bad and there's only a few hundred or a few thousand of us there.

BUT there's something I think Nick and RT aren't taking into account here.

First and foremost fans are paying CUSTOMERS who have a RIGHT to expect value for their money. Football is now an incredibly expensive form of 'entertainment' and is becoming even more so when compared to other ways of spending several hours (including travel, parking, getting in and out of the stadium etc) of what should be LEISURE time, in other words a period of time in which you relax and enjoy yourself. 

In the 21st Century the attitude 'Real fans go to every game and hand over hundreds or thousands of pounds of their own hard earned money no matter how rubbish the product is every year without question and everyone else is a plastic piece of contemptible rubbish' no longer flies or it shouldn't. 

It's that precise mentality that allows clubs to laugh in our faces and think of us as mugs who are no more than walking ATM's to them. Sometimes the only way forward, the only way to show your love for your club is to withhold that money and stay away. The balance sheet and their wallets are all that matters to chairmen. managers and players today, it's been true for a very long time but before Sky bought the game lock stock and barrel it wasn't quite so blatantly obvious. Football wasn't all that expensive compared to going to the pub for a couple with your mates or going out with the kids to the cinema or other ways of spending your disposable income. Now it's a ruinously expensive thing compared to almost every other leisure activity and frankly we DESERVE to be given something of value in return and treated as people not mugs who'll swallow all the crap and pay to watch some dire junk from people on weekly wages bigger than most of our annual salaries. 

I love Bolton Wanderers, I've followed them for more than thirty five years and I stayed away only once, in 2009 when I decided what was going on under Megson was wrong for my club and I refused to help fund an ongoing disaster. I'm not quite there again yet but it's getting closer. I'll be at the game tomorrow and if we lose but fight well and perform well I'll be happy but if we play as badly as we did against Reading, if the players show so little spirit and Dougie's master plan of not changing anything doesn't work then I'll be teetering on refusing to renew my season ticket for only the second time since I personally paid for my first in 1985. I don't belittle the absolute die-hards who say we MUST carry on going no matter what but I do pity them. They are being stupid, admirably loyal yes but stupid because that very loyalty is what allows Phil and the rest of his cronies to keep making such a dreadful hash of things while drawing six figure salaries that WE help to pay for. 

I was there in Division 4, I put money into the club through things like the lifeline and I chucked money in the buckets that were being waved around in the car park where Normid were allowed to build their supermarket because we were too broke to keep all of Burnden Park AND pay the bills which were nothing compared to today's so I don't have any qualms about claiming 'real fan' status. Like breadman I've been there done that but the way things are going now I can't justify continuing to chuck good money into a crap product. And right now our product is so crap calling it football is probably a violation of The Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Trading Standards Office rules about making dishonest statements concerning your goods or services.

NickFazer wrote:I didn't go to the match for ages, missed almost all of the noughties. When I decided to get a season ticket again I made myself some promises

1 Its only a game, like any fan I want my team to win and I love the atmosphere especially at away games but if we lose or play crap then I moan like fuck until I get to the car and then forget about it.

2 I refuse to let it run my weekend or evening if we lose and buzz off it all week if we win.

3 The money ain't my problem - If someone is willing to pay these dicks 20 grand a week then thats their decision but don't come moaning to me when your skint. The debt, I didn't borrow it, I didn't spend it and [thank fuck] I don't have to pay it back so Eddie that's your problem.

This football club has some difficult times ahead and things may well get worse before they get better but some of us have been here before and remember the thrill of fighting our way back up the divisions. For those that are too young to remember when we really were shit then times like these will test your faith and your patience but unless you know the dark days you never really appreciate the good ones.

Despite the efforts of this owner and board Bolton Wanderers will survive, as long there are a hardcore of fans to support it, you only had to see Coventry City fans at Arsenal tonight to see the passion that even "unfashionable" clubs command.

So when we have lost 7-1 or Zat Knight has cost us the game, just tell yourself its only a game, now who've we got next week, QPR away, piece of piss.

It's a great post that Nick!

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:

NickFazer wrote:I didn't go to the match for ages, missed almost all of the noughties. When I decided to get a season ticket again I made myself some promises

1 Its only a game, like any fan I want my team to win and I love the atmosphere especially at away games but if we lose or play crap then I moan like fuck until I get to the car and then forget about it.

2 I refuse to let it run my weekend or evening if we lose and buzz off it all week if we win.

3 The money ain't my problem - If someone is willing to pay these dicks 20 grand a week then thats their decision but don't come moaning to me when your skint. The debt, I didn't borrow it, I didn't spend it and [thank fuck] I don't have to pay it back so Eddie that's your problem.

This football club has some difficult times ahead and things may well get worse before they get better but some of us have been here before and remember the thrill of fighting our way back up the divisions. For those that are too young to remember when we really were shit then times like these will test your faith and your patience but unless you know the dark days you never really appreciate the good ones.

Despite the efforts of this owner and board Bolton Wanderers will survive, as long there are a hardcore of fans to support it, you only had to see Coventry City fans at Arsenal tonight to see the passion that even "unfashionable" clubs command.

So when we have lost 7-1 or Zat Knight has cost us the game, just tell yourself its only a game, now who've we got next week, QPR away, piece of piss.

It's posts like this that restore my faith in football. It's easy to call it a day when things are going wrong but it's fans like Nick who sum it up perfectly for me.

  Loyalty to your club is a wonderful thing and necessary for them to go in the direction you want even though It can be very hard to keep summoning the will to go when times are bad and there's only a few hundred or a few thousand of us there.

BUT there's something I think Nick and RT aren't taking into account here.

First and foremost fans are paying CUSTOMERS who have a RIGHT to expect value for their money. Football is now an incredibly expensive form of 'entertainment' and is becoming even more so when compared to other ways of spending several hours (including travel, parking, getting in and out of the stadium etc) of what should be LEISURE time, in other words a period of time in which you relax and enjoy yourself. 

In the 21st Century the attitude 'Real fans go to every game and hand over hundreds or thousands of pounds of their own hard earned money no matter how rubbish the product is every year without question and everyone else is a plastic piece of contemptible rubbish' no longer flies or it shouldn't. 

It's that precise mentality that allows clubs to laugh in our faces and think of us as mugs who are no more than walking ATM's to them. Sometimes the only way forward, the only way to show your love for your club is to withhold that money and stay away. The balance sheet and their wallets are all that matters to chairmen. managers and players today, it's been true for a very long time but before Sky bought the game lock stock and barrel it wasn't quite so blatantly obvious. Football wasn't all that expensive compared to going to the pub for a couple with your mates or going out with the kids to the cinema or other ways of spending your disposable income. Now it's a ruinously expensive thing compared to almost every other leisure activity and frankly we DESERVE to be given something of value in return and treated as people not mugs who'll swallow all the crap and pay to watch some dire junk from people on weekly wages bigger than most of our annual salaries. 

I love Bolton Wanderers, I've followed them for more than thirty five years and I stayed away only once, in 2009 when I decided what was going on under Megson was wrong for my club and I refused to help fund an ongoing disaster. I'm not quite there again yet but it's getting closer. I'll be at the game tomorrow and if we lose but fight well and perform well I'll be happy but if we play as badly as we did against Reading, if the players show so little spirit and Dougie's master plan of not changing anything doesn't work then I'll be teetering on refusing to renew my season ticket for only the second time since I personally paid for my first in 1985. I don't belittle the absolute die-hards who say we MUST carry on going no matter what but I do pity them. They are being stupid, admirably loyal yes but stupid because that very loyalty is what allows Phil and the rest of his cronies to keep making such a dreadful hash of things while drawing six figure salaries that WE help to pay for. 

I was there in Division 4, I put money into the club through things like the lifeline and I chucked money in the buckets that were being waved around in the car park where Normid were allowed to build their supermarket because we were too broke to keep all of Burnden Park AND pay the bills which were nothing compared to today's so I don't have any qualms about claiming 'real fan' status. Like breadman I've been there done that but the way things are going now I can't justify continuing to chuck good money into a crap product. And right now our product is so crap calling it football is probably a violation of The Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Trading Standards Office rules about making dishonest statements concerning your goods or services.

Sorry this threads getting longer but here are two of the best posts made for a while. Right from the heart and expressing exactly what most true Whites fans are thinking. It's not just our club it's every club outside the "Fab 4" who aided and abetted by Sky have devastated our football. Sadly we'll never go back to where it was but at least fans like us will never sell our soul to the money men be they players, agents, clubs or Sky. I won't be there tomorrow, my views on Freedman are well known and until he goes not one penny more goes into his pocket. It hurts, I want to support my club but as is eminently said above, if the only way to make them feel it is by staying away then so be it.

Thanks for the comments peeps, and Peterpiper I absolutely agree with you about expecting value for money as a paying customer, the least that we can expect is for the players and management to show pride and effort. I have every sympathy for fans that feel disillusioned at times and sometimes a break away does you good and brings back your enthusiasm. 

Personally I think we are very much in a down cycle and Dougie has got the job of sorting it out, it needs a new playing staff, younger and hungrier, we all know moving on players on fat contracts isn't easy so for now I am backing Dougie and hope we can start a new campaign with a new look squad.

Whitesince63 wrote: I won't be there tomorrow, my views on Freedman are well known and until he goes not one penny more goes into his pocket. It hurts, I want to support my club but as is eminently said above, if the only way to make them feel it is by staying away then so be it.

You miss the point entirely by staying away because of Freedman.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Whitesince63 wrote: I won't be there tomorrow, my views on Freedman are well known and until he goes not one penny more goes into his pocket. It hurts, I want to support my club but as is eminently said above, if the only way to make them feel it is by staying away then so be it.

You miss the point entirely by staying away because of Freedman.

I make the point the way I see fit Nat if it's not your way, fine do it your way but unless you're the font of all knowledge accept everybody's different. Voting with my feet seems spot on to me and if ultimately it helps get rid of Freedman then even better.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Whitesince63 wrote: I won't be there tomorrow, my views on Freedman are well known and until he goes not one penny more goes into his pocket. It hurts, I want to support my club but as is eminently said above, if the only way to make them feel it is by staying away then so be it.

You miss the point entirely by staying away because of Freedman.

I make the point the way I see fit Nat if it's not your way, fine do it your way but unless you're the font of all knowledge accept everybody's different. Voting with my feet seems spot on to me and if ultimately it helps get rid of Freedman then even better.

White when I didn't renew my season ticket under Megson I still went to a few of the away games. That way I was able to watch the boys without putting money into coffers that I felt were being wasted. I know it's not the same but that way you can at least catch the odd game without helping to fund what you see as a disaster.

Some good points made although I think that LPP's comment "fans are paying CUSTOMERS who have a RIGHT to expect value for their money" is spurious inasmuch that the definition of VFM is questionable.
Can't equate VFM to our performances because if we lose, the other team wins and fans choose to pay to watch both teams. 

If I go and watch a film and it doesn't pan out the way I hoped it would, does that mean I'm not getting VFM? 
If I bet on a horse that doesn't win, does that mean I'm getting ripped off?
The only right I really have is the right not to do it again.

I've 'lost it' a couple of times over the years but it still draws me back after a while.

For me the club as never been my 'religion'.  I've always though people really were 'fanatics' when they go on about how they've spent most of their time and a massive wodge of their incomes following basically an entertainment company around - similar in a way as young girls follow pop boy bands about.

I've always picked and chosen what matches I've gone to rather than felt the urge to see each and every game Bolton play irrespective if I thought I would enjoy the experience or not - what is the point in going and paying your money and spending your time on doing something you are not enjoying, simply so you can say later to someone or other who probably doesn't give a fig - that you've not missed a match in the last x number of years?

Saying that though I've probably seen close to a thousand Bolton games give or take over the last 50 years.

As a kid I loved being with my dad, the atmosphere and noise at the game and talking about the match on Monday morning at school with my mates.  As a youth it was about meeting up with your mates and sharing something together - back in those days there wasn't all the media and computer games stuff around as alternative options to do, it was either go to the match or go with your mam and dad shopping in town.

As a young man it was a way of keeping in touch with your mates who had by now had got jobs, moved homes (or even out of the area) and was usually a starting point for a good day / night out, rather than just going for the game.

Around that time it also started to become an adventure in that you used to plan for away games, was there going to be any aggro, could you afford it or did you have to hitch-hike down and back?  Where were you going to meet up (remember this was a time before mobiles, sat navs and the internet) etc.

Back then most games were pay on the door so tickets were never really a problem unless it was a big match.

I first 'lost it' the year we got back to the first division under Ian Greaves.  Don't know why though?  I saw the vast bulk of our games from or rise from the third and one of my best games was the away match at Blackburn that clinced our promotion back - so why did I lose interest once we had returned to the top?

Anyway it came back again and it coincided in me moving down south so I used to travel to many games down 'here' whilst returning home on the weekends we were playing at home - best of both worlds really.

I got used to going to games on my own - usually when my mates didn't fancy travelling to 'southern' games, which were far easier for me to get to than them - but I also loved the craic meeting up with them at home games - so much so that the football was incidental in having a good time - simply a place to meet up at and go on from.

Some of my most enjoyable times have been when the club as been playing crap - as it was the company of freinds and the laughing at how bad we were that made it special - not the footy itself.

Football is dead for me - the money is stupid and people without any redeaming personal qualities are millionaires many times over - simply because they can kick a bag of wind better than most of the rest of us.

Clubs have always exploited the paying public - they are in it for a profit after all - so it makes me laugh at the poor souls who moan bitterly of how they have paid thousands over the years into the club and the club doesn't want to know their opinion of how things should be.  Why the fuck should it?  Do you think Tesco wants to hear what I think about how they run their business simply because I've shopped with them over the years since they opened their branch on Blackburn Road (near the Iron Church) some 40 odd years ago?

I really don't 'get' why some people live and breath football - it is at the end of the day simply a game.  So we lose a match - it's not the end of the world really is it?

I've loved football over the years both watching and playing it.  I follow my home town club and had many fantastic times doing so.  I want us to do well but not at all costs - hence my thread on ethics the other day.

If we win it makes me happier, if we lose it makes me sadder but neither makes or breaks my weekend because if it.

I don't watch any other football these days (World Cup apart) as all the Sky money as distorted the game out of all recognition to me - the rich get richer and the rest are just their to make up the numbers.  When the likes of John Terry and Joey Barton can become millionaires and minor celebs, then surely somebody must see that our values in life are going wrong somewhere - football is simply not that important in the scheme of things.  

Money makes money though - so morals have long since gone out the window - the game seems to be rotten to the core for me.

Freedman is on record as saying some of our players are not giving their best - what does that little snapshot tell us about life as a footballer these days?

Second division players - paid more in a week than most of us earn in a year - just to kick a ball about - and they can't even give 100% of themselves just to do that???

Something is very wrong - and we've got what we deserve for letting this happen.

I'm much too old to change my ways - I'll still want Bolton to do well and win - but I've never fooled myself that I've been valued by the club for supporting them over the years and equally neither am I shocked our amazed that the club doesn't want nor value my opinion on how it should run its business.

It's just a game - but most people these days seem to have forgotten that.

That's my opinion on Bolton and football anyway.