These bloody accounts!

It always struck me as very odd that someone with no apparent money, was so dogged in his quest to get the club and was able to do so by getting a payday loan type deal to his company (Sports Shield) by using the assets of the club.

It seems to me (my opinion only) that this was all planned in advance with Collins to legally acquire the club for nothing and let the club assets pay the bills whilst they just took substantial money from the club in wages and expenses.

Anderson got badly played and has in my opinion been the only good thing to come out of this in attempting to make the best of a complete dogs dinner left first by the poor stewardship of the former owner and the shifty (but legal) manoeuvrings of his business partner and his 'advisor' friend.

It also my opinion that Holdsworth fed the ST board members details of behind the scene confidential information because of their clear dislike of Anderson.

It also explains (again in my opinion) the MASSIVE U-TURN from Chris Manning in the last few days or so from being the most vocal champion of the ST to distancing himself completely from them.

As I say this is all only my opinion because I certainly don't want any sort of lible charges further down the line!



I

wanderlust wrote:

rammywhite wrote:The 2015 Accounts are available here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Health warning- they are not a pretty sight

Deloitte's have stated that they hadn't been given access to the information they require to fulfill their obligation as an independent auditor if I read this correctly. Does that mean that the accounts won't be accepted Rammy? What is the current HMRC attitude towards such a disclaimer?

It probably means ( and I emphasise 'probably') that some of the information that they requested  either wasn't passed to them ( unlikely as they would probably have resigned there and then) or is sub judice because of ongoing legal arguments , particularly as to who owns the shares. Look at Note 31 and it shows that they're not sure whether KA (and his investment vehicle ) owns 47.5% or 57.5% and Holdsworth owns the balance.
Also there are about 4 or 5 legal disputes on the go and that means that information may be so uncertain, but important, that the auditors can't accept remote possibilities. The audit report is a legal document and you wouldn't sign one unless you were sure what you were signing about. And they clearly aren't.


HMRC won't bother that much as they're owed only PAYE and NICs and they are being paid.
There is no corporation tax to pay(and never will be) and so its just agreement about tax losses that would bother them.
Its a mess from top to bottom

Norpig wrote:Rammy care to explain in simple English for dullards like myself what this all means? It would be most appreciated 

Will do when I get a minute- I've a few other things that I need to get out the way this afternoon first- like the day job stuff

Norpig wrote:he doesn't hold back does he? I wish they would stop airing their dirty laundry in public though.

It's worth having a rummage through KA's old laundry. I've very little time for either of them,and I have to say,this is beginning to look more than a little shabby.

All the optimism from when they both took over has long since vanished, this will drag on for years through the courts and the big losers in all this will be us supporters. 

God knows what happens next season if we stay in league 1, we will end up playing the academy kids (if we still have one) at this rate.

Both KA and Deano need to stop this now and get back to sorting out their problems being closed doors and securing the future of the club they both claim to have close to their hearts.

I'm not surprised that KA is challenging the loan made to DH's investment vehicle which seems to suggest that he pledged the clubs assets as security. That would be like you and your brother each borrowing to buy a house jointly and your brother pledging the house to the bank without your knowledge before the house was bought. . You as joint owner could legally challenge that. Its a bit like me borrowing £1000 from Barclays to buy shares in British Gas and pledging the assets of British gas as security. It wouldn't work in law- and I'm not in the least bit surprised that KA is quite rightly challenging this in court. And I think he'll win.
I get the impression more and more that Dean is a bit thick and he's being manipulated like some dim-witted patsy or frontman into buying the club by sophisticated quasi-criminals who are using him to get the club assets and sell them off.. No-one sensible would go into a deal like this unless they were naïve and easily bewildered. A 24% pa interest rate?? Who in their right minds pays that. . And its rising to 30%!!

Norpig wrote:All the optimism from when they both took over has long since vanished, this will drag on for years through the courts and the big losers in all this will be us supporters. 

God knows what happens next season if we stay in league 1, we will end up playing the academy kids (if we still have one) at this rate.

Both KA and Deano need to stop this now and get back to sorting out their problems being closed doors and securing the future of the club they both claim to have close to their hearts.

Don't take this the wrong way mate but I think that is just wishful thinking.

Clearly a lot of thought has gone into what happened with the BluMarble loan to get the club by Holdsworth and his advisors.

You don't just tip up to a company, sign a £5 million deal (without informing your partner who you are buying the club with) to your own company and sign a deal to pay it back 16 DAYS later knowing you don't have that sort of money and that it would have to be the club assets that would be forfeited.

Reading between the lines also it seems to me (my opinion) that Anderson is saying £1 million never made it into the club!

He is also saying Holdsworth took out £1.5 million for himself.

These things won't sort themselves out amicably.

And what's more it is my opinion that if the ST hadn't vilified Anderson and made out Holdsworth out to be a saint from day one - and seemingly fed confidential information from Holdsworth (in my opinion) to continue that impression up to today - then perhaps these matters COULD have been kept behind closed doors.

The more the ST fanned the flames of Anderson being not wanted at the club (and many, many gullible people following their lead) the less likely Anderson would not let people be aware of what actually happened behind the scenes was not of his making at all!

The bottom line is that Holdsworth/Sports Shield have not made payment on the BluMarble loan, not put any of his/their money into the club, has not put in the full £5 million in the first place, has taken a reported £1.5 million out for himself, and sits there watching everything turn to shit at the club without raising a hand to turn things around.  All in my opinion of course.

Holdsworth never had the club at his heart and Anderson is a businessman that seems to have been played by Holdsworth and his advisor.

it is wishful thinking Sluffy, and i'm sure we all hope it gets sorted out but it certainly won't be amicable after this war of words.

It is amazing that Deano got a loan on the strength of assets he didn't even own at the time, surely that can't be legal?

rammywhite wrote:I'm not surprised that KA is challenging the loan made to DH's investment vehicle which seems to suggest that he pledged the clubs assets as security. That would be like you and your brother each borrowing to buy a house jointly and your brother pledging the house to the bank without your knowledge before the house was bought. . You as joint owner could legally challenge that. Its a bit like me borrowing £1000 from Barclays to buy shares in British Gas and pledging the assets of British gas as security. It wouldn't work in law- and I'm not in the least bit surprised that KA is quite rightly challenging this in court. And I think he'll win.
I get the impression more and more that Dean is a bit thick and he's being manipulated like some dim-witted patsy or frontman into buying the club by sophisticated quasi-criminals who are using him to get the club assets and sell them off.. No-one sensible would go into a deal like this unless they were naïve and easily bewildered. A 24% pa interest rate?? Who in their right minds pays that. . And its rising to 30%!!

But where were the overseers?  The trustee, the FA, and the courts who approved the deal?

it's more likely Deano has been played by whoever he jumped into bed with, as Rammy says, he is probably a bit thick.

boltonbonce wrote:Bolton Wanderers chairman Ken Anderson,a former football agent, was disqualified as a company director from 2005 until 2013 for transgressions including diverting company funds into personal accounts, VAT discrepancies and failure to cooperate with receivers. The Football League say Anderson passed their owners and directors test because his sentence has been served.


This bloke is far too canny to have been 'played' by DH and his mob.

Anyone can take their eye of the ball and get caught out.

Holdsworth deal was done on the SAME DAY as they bought the club and Anderson apparently was left completely in the dark about it.

Don't forget the person who went into the courtroom as Holdsworth intended partner dropped out and Anderson stepped in at the last possible moment!

No doubt Anderson too saw pound signs in his eyes and maybe even his greed got the better of his judgement but the fact remains that Holdsworth did a deal that Anderson seemed not to know about and when he did find out, that was seemingly the end of the trust between them.

I guess Anderson could have done the same and taken out a £2.5 million (the amount he agreed to put into the deal) loan with another BluMarble type loan company, put just £1.5 million into the club (the other £1 million being the arrangement fee!) to make things equal - take a multi-million pound wages and expenses, then sit back with Holdsworth and watch the club fail - but to his credit he didn't.

Norpig wrote:it's more likely Deano has been played by whoever he jumped into bed with, as Rammy says, he is probably a bit thick.

I simply don't believe he 'loved' Bolton so much that he jumped through all those hoops (and set up a new business specifically remember - Sport Shield Bolton Wanderers - or whatever is its exact title) simply just to be the owner of a club he just run up a massive £5 million debt on it he couldn't possibly pay back himself.

He might not be Einstein but he must have had a good idea of what he was getting himself into, in my opinion.

Norpig wrote:

It is amazing that Deano got a loan on the strength of assets he didn't even own at the time, surely that can't be legal?

That's how mortgages work. A bank or building society will lend money to buy a property and immediately take charge of ownership until the borrower pays up.

Some other points:

Rammy thanks for the update re HMRC attitude to Auditors not signing off.

Gobsmacked at the interest rate on the loan. 

Equally gobsmacked at the scale of the liabilities that are still creeping up day by day.

We are still a very long way from turning this around and if recent comments from KA are to be believed it's likely to get worse.

wanderlust wrote:

Norpig wrote:

It is amazing that Deano got a loan on the strength of assets he didn't even own at the time, surely that can't be legal?

That's how mortgages work. A bank or building society will lend money to buy a property and immediately take charge of ownership until the borrower pays up.

Some other points:

Rammy thanks for the update re HMRC attitude to Auditors not signing off.

Gobsmacked at the interest rate on the loan. 

Equally gobsmacked at the scale of the liabilities that are still creeping up day by day.

We are still a very long way from turning this around and if recent comments from KA are to be believed it's likely to get worse.

Wander - exactly right... and that's what led to the housing crisis and financial collapse in 2008.

Sluffy wrote:

Norpig wrote:it's more likely Deano has been played by whoever he jumped into bed with, as Rammy says, he is probably a bit thick.

I simply don't believe he 'loved' Bolton so much that he jumped through all those hoops (and set up a new business specifically remember - Sport Shield Bolton Wanderers - or whatever is its exact title) simply just to be the owner of a club he just run up a massive £5 million debt on it he couldn't possibly pay back himself.

He might not be Einstein but he must have had a good idea of what he was getting himself into, in my opinion.

 I reckon he got carried along with the hype and the thought of being our saviour, he had very little business acumen or history before all this didn't he? 
He probably thought he would get the chairman job and be the face of the club and let his dodgy mates actually run the club

observer wrote:

rammywhite wrote:I'm not surprised that KA is challenging the loan made to DH's investment vehicle which seems to suggest that he pledged the clubs assets as security. That would be like you and your brother each borrowing to buy a house jointly and your brother pledging the house to the bank without your knowledge before the house was bought. . You as joint owner could legally challenge that. Its a bit like me borrowing £1000 from Barclays to buy shares in British Gas and pledging the assets of British gas as security. It wouldn't work in law- and I'm not in the least bit surprised that KA is quite rightly challenging this in court. And I think he'll win.
I get the impression more and more that Dean is a bit thick and he's being manipulated like some dim-witted patsy or frontman into buying the club by sophisticated quasi-criminals who are using him to get the club assets and sell them off.. No-one sensible would go into a deal like this unless they were naïve and easily bewildered. A 24% pa interest rate?? Who in their right minds pays that. . And its rising to 30%!!

But where were the overseers?  The trustee, the FA, and the courts who approved the deal?

I'm not sure who would be the trustee at the time but Holdsworth deal with BluMarble was signed as him being the owner and the club secretary at the time being the witness - see I think that is the trustee part answered?

The FA looked for £7.5 million running costs for the year - Holdsworth met his part with the loan (secured on club assets) and Anderson obviously proved he had access to his £2.5 million part of the deal, so the FA must have been happy enough.

The court was only bothered about settling the claim of the taxman - which was done from Holdsworth loan - so they were happy I guess.

I can't really see anything untoward - even Holdsworth deal.

I understands Rammy's analogy about buying gas shares - but what if he bought the whole of British gas and financed the deal from their assets - I think that is legal isn't it - and if so that is broadly what Holdsworth did I think?

Norpig wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

Norpig wrote:it's more likely Deano has been played by whoever he jumped into bed with, as Rammy says, he is probably a bit thick.

I simply don't believe he 'loved' Bolton so much that he jumped through all those hoops (and set up a new business specifically remember - Sport Shield Bolton Wanderers - or whatever is its exact title) simply just to be the owner of a club he just run up a massive £5 million debt on it he couldn't possibly pay back himself.

He might not be Einstein but he must have had a good idea of what he was getting himself into, in my opinion.

 I reckon he got carried along with the hype and the thought of being our saviour, he had very little business acumen or history before all this didn't he? 
He probably thought he would get the chairman job and be the face of the club and let his dodgy mates actually run the club

I think you give him too much credit for wanting the club - I don't believe the hype at all that he 'loved' the club that much.

In fact he played more games and scored more goals for Wimbledon than he did us and he played more or less 75% of his career at clubs other than Bolton.

Christ he wasn't really that much loved here following his Wembley miss!

You're a nice bloke Norpig and you clearly want to see the good in him but I could never understand why he wanted to buy the club so badly (don't forget we were losing a £1 million per month at the time and scheduled to do so for the following 18 months or so as well!).

Something clearly wasn't right to my mind.

And nobody is that dumb.

observer wrote:

rammywhite wrote:I'm not surprised that KA is challenging the loan made to DH's investment vehicle which seems to suggest that he pledged the clubs assets as security. That would be like you and your brother each borrowing to buy a house jointly and your brother pledging the house to the bank without your knowledge before the house was bought. . You as joint owner could legally challenge that. Its a bit like me borrowing £1000 from Barclays to buy shares in British Gas and pledging the assets of British gas as security. It wouldn't work in law- and I'm not in the least bit surprised that KA is quite rightly challenging this in court. And I think he'll win.
I get the impression more and more that Dean is a bit thick and he's being manipulated like some dim-witted patsy or frontman into buying the club by sophisticated quasi-criminals who are using him to get the club assets and sell them off.. No-one sensible would go into a deal like this unless they were naïve and easily bewildered. A 24% pa interest rate?? Who in their right minds pays that. . And its rising to 30%!!

But where were the overseers?  The trustee, the FA, and the courts who approved the deal?

Good question obs. Particularly the FA who should have been looking very closely at this whole sordid affair

boltonbonce wrote:It looks pretty bleak Rammy. I,like many other supporters not too savvy when it comes to club finances,tend to lean toward a Micawberish ethos of 'something's bound to turn up'.
Seeing this in black and white,I'm starting to think that,whatever does turn up might be very very unwelcome.

\
I think you're correct= particularly as there looks like some long drawn out legal challenges.
I'm quite depressed by it all and fear for the future.
More then ever before have we need a clean pair of outside hands, a fresh investor of whatever nationality, creed, race or religion (or none of these)  too come along and buy them out.