Bolton 3-2 Rotherham

Soul Kitchen wrote:Draw at best again, we are shit and we know we are!!
I'll be in the country just, but I'm not putting myself out to rush up to the funhouse.

I'm coming back from abroad and arriving at 6pm on Tuesday night at Manchester airport- and going straight to the Reebok (sorry, Macron).
We'll win- I have no doubt about that, and that will mean Doogie is safe at least until Christmas.

For all the bad press surrounding the team at the moment I think we will win tomorrow night - Rotherham have only scored once away from home this season so I can see a clean sheet, with a sneaky goal at the other end.

Heart says 3-0, head says 0-0.

I might even be supporting Rotherham in this game.

I think we will be embarrassed after this one.

wanderlust wrote:

Breadman wrote:Freedman's going to make another raft of changes, it's going to be another shite 0-0, with us conceding possession and impetus to them for large parts of the game, we'll have one or two shots on target, they'll hit the bar, nothing remotely positive will happen, Mark Davies (if selected and it's a big if) will get injured and he'll bang on about how "brave" and "honest" his players were and blah, blah, blah....

And we'll do it all again next week.

La Tristesse Durera........

Why tristesse you miserable so-and-so?

We expect to get beaten.
We know we're shite and our players aren't good enough.
We are only 2 points below our target of survival and there's plenty of time i.e. 30 odd games to claw those back.
And we know the manager will try anything to get a performance out of these donkeys, even though it will probably fail miserably.

So if we're expecting a mullering what is there to be sad or angry about?
Surely we're in a win-win situation?

If we get beat, it's nothing more than we are expecting so there's no reason to be disappointed or angry about it.
If we get a point or even a win FFS, we've exceeded expectations so happy days are here again.

We just can't lose even if we lose! 

i'll have what Lustys having please Mr Pharmacist!

We will get our first win of the season and off the results of this, Gartside will give Freedman a new 10 year contract.

My prediction 2-0!

Preview: Bolton v Rotherham

Bolton Wanderers v Rotherham United
Sky Bet Championship
Tuesday 16 September 2014
Kick-Off 8pm

SETTING THE SCENE

Wanderers face Rotherham on Tuesday night in what will be the Millers’ first visit to Macron Stadium, and the first competitive meeting between the two sides for 21 years.

Having sat at opposite ends of the football ladder for the majority of that time, the clubs are set to be reacquainted after Rotherham secured back-to-back promotions via the play-offs last season.

The Whites won their last meeting against the Yorkshire outfit back in 1993, but it is their only victory in this fixture since 1985. With Dougie Freedman’s side searching for their maiden league win of the campaign, they will be keen to ensure that that record is about to change.

ALL-TIME RECORD

	Wanderers wins	Draws	Rotherham wins
League	6	11	13
FA Cup	0	0	0
League Cup	0	2	2
Total	6	13	15

TEAM NEWS

Andrew Lonergan is expected to continue in goal after Adam Bogdan was ruled out for eight weeks with a fractured finger, while Kevin McNaughton could return, having missed Saturday’s draw with Sheffield Wednesday through illness.

Liam Trotter and David Wheater will definitely miss out after coming off injured against Crewe Alexandra and Leeds United respectively.

Elsewhere, Marc Tierney and Sanmi Odelusi are the only other absentees for the Whites.

LAST TIME OUT
13/09/2014: Bournemouth 1-1 Rotherham United

Substitute Jordan Bowery came off the bench to score an injury-time equaliser as Rotherham secured a 1-1 draw away at Bournemouth.

Fielding a new-look partnership in attack of debutants Luciano Becchio and Jonson Clarke-Harris, the visitors often found themselves on the back-foot and could have already been behind after Callum Wilson hit the post, before Steve Cook headed Bournemouth in front.

But in the third minute of stoppage time, Bowery leapt highest to nod home a Paul Taylor corner and earn his side a share of the points.

Rotherham: Collin, Skarz, Arnason, Green, Richardson, Pringle (Derbyshire 65), Morgan, Becchio (Revell 50), Taylor, Clarke-Harris (Bowery 55), Smallwood

ONE TO WATCH
Luciano Becchio

Starting his career in his native Argentina with Boca Juniors, Becchio left the club for Europe in 2003, going on to spend brief spells with Mallorca B, Ciudad de Murcia, Terrassa and Barcelona B.

Joining Merida in 2006, the forward topped the Segunda B scoring charts with 22 goals during the 2007/08 campaign, with his form earning him a move to Leeds United at the end of the season.

A regular goalscorer during his time at Elland Road, the Argentine scored 19 goals in his first season in English football before helping the Whites win promotion to the Championship the following year.

Immediately adapting to the English second tier, Becchio twice broke the 20-goal mark before leaving for Premier League Norwich City in January 2013.

However, after a frustrating time at Carrow Road, Becchio was allowed to join Rotherham United on a season-long loan on transfer deadline day.

LAST TIME THEY WERE HERE

Tuesday night’s match marks Rotherham’s first ever visit to Macron Stadium, and their first meeting with Wanderers in 21 years.

The last time they made the away trip to Bolton was in March 1993, where they fell to a 2-0 defeat as an Andy Walker brace secured victory for Bruce Rioch’s side.

MAN IN THE MIDDLE

Lancashire-based referee Neil Swarbrick takes charge of Wanderers’ home clash with Rotherham United on Tuesday.

An established Premier League official, the midweek encounter marks Mr Swarbrick’s first ever visit to Macron Stadium. However, he has twice before officiated Whites matches, most recently reffing Bolton’s 0-0 draw away at Blackpool in October last year.

Andrew Garratt and Marc Perry will run the line, while Mick Russell is the fourth official.

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Wanderlust, you are as deluded as Dougie. It's the manager's job to get the best out of the players at his disposal: DF does the exact opposite due to the tactics employed and the roles given.


Just about every player is getting worse under his guidance, and the ones who show some signs of  progress are summarily dropped. The squad we have, managed properly, should be in the top half of the table.

boltonbonce wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Watching BSA's West Ham team vs Hull City, and these pictures are so realistic and true.  Of course having someone like Valencia makes it so much more enjoyable and BSA was unlucky not to nick this one at the death, but I love the spirit his teams have.  We can all look at these pictures and they tell the truth of where we have come from to where we are now.  Inspiration and perspiration versus intellectual bs.

Just been watching an old clip of ITV Results from 1990 (Elton Welsby presenting it!!!!)   In Division 3 the first match was Bolton 0 - 2 Rotherham!

So why am I expecting much of the same from the game tomorrow night?

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okocha wrote:Wanderlust, you are as deluded as Dougie. It's the manager's job to get the best out of the players at his disposal: DF does the exact opposite due to the tactics employed and the roles given

Just about every player is getting worse under his guidance, and the ones who show some signs of  progress are summarily dropped. The squad we have, managed properly, should be in the top half of the table.

In your opinion Okocha.....

And I take it as an opinion as you know nothing about the man, have no idea what he's thinking, have no idea what contractual constraints he's working under, have no idea of the level of Board interference he has to endure, have no idea of the conversations that take place within the club, have no idea of what he does to  motivate the players, have no idea of how the players respond, have no idea of how hard he works and how much he is committed to BWFC, have no idea of how the players are playing during the week to earn their selection, have no idea of the tactics and systems that are tried - and dispensed with in training, have no idea of who is carrying injuries at any point in time, have no idea which players are facing personal or other problems that may affect their performance...in fact you know nothing about Dougie, the players, their preparation or situation.

And yet you think you know better than the guy who knows all these things and has worked at the top end of the game all his life.

You are entitled to your opinion, but as it's so ill-informed and based purely on guesswork, speculation and media bollocks please don't get ruffled feathers if I choose to recognise it for what it is.

Here's a thought...

Maybe the manager is getting the best out of the players?
Maybe his tactics are the best possible tactics for this team on any given day?
Maybe playing e.g. Ream out of position is a better option than playing Moxey?
Maybe it could be a helluva lot worse but for Dougie?

I couldn't speculate about it because like you, I DON'T KNOW THE FACTS.
Perhaps if you stopped expressing speculative opinions as facts I wouldn't find your rants so irritating.

All fair enough, Lusty, but if we further extend your point that none of us knows what's going on behind closed doors and consider what this leaves us with, what do we get?

If we are to form an opinion, it has to be based on the hard data we receive in terms of stats and the evidence of our own eyes - and (whilst I agree it's merely a subjective opinion on my part) it doesn't look like Freedman is doing a decent job.

He never selects a settled team.
He plays players out of position constantly.
His preferred system doesn't appear to be working (for whatever reason - players not understanding or wanting to play that way or simply not being good enough to do so, we don't know.)
He spouts the same rubbish after every game (see today's comments about how we dominated Sheff Wednesday.)
I could go on..........


The point is, yes - none of us truly know what's happening behind the scenes, but we can see what's happening on the pitch and he has to be ultimately held responsible for our poor form, as it's his team selections and tactics that currently see us rooted in the bottom three without a win.

I'm going tonight. 

Only the 3rd home game ive attended this season... 

If im honest, im only going as I work near the Reebok and its an opportunity to have a few beers in Scots right after work. 

I expect the same depressing crap as in the previous games, I don't know why I do this to myself, I really don't. Its not the fact we are bottom of the league, I can cope with that, its the lack of passion and inept management/board along with the total lack of empathy shown towards the fans concerns/feelings at all. I remember when we were a 'family club'. 

The 'fun' has been sucked out of going to the match for me. its depressing.

Wander, you and I both know that you are way out of line with the vast majority. Why try to defend failure? We simply can't afford to. The facts are there in the league table and stats. More subjective evidence is laid bare on the pitch each game. DF's post-match judgements clearly do not accord with the reality of the games. You know this is true, Wander, so don't over-react when I point this out on a forum for ideas.

With your attitude, no one would ever be dismissed from any job, because we "don't know the man", or the extraneous factors contributing to their failure. I'm afraid that this is a competitive business and others with similar or worse constraints are doing better than us, as you know.

okocha wrote:Wander, you and I both know that you are way out of line with the vast majority. Why try to defend failure? We simply can't afford to. The facts are there in the league table and stats. More subjective evidence is laid bare on the pitch each game. DF's post-match judgements clearly do not accord with the reality of the games. You know this is true, Wander, so don't over-react when I point this out on a forum for ideas.

With your attitude, no one would ever be dismissed from any job, because we "don't know the man", or the extraneous factors contributing to their failure. I'm afraid that this is a competitive business and others with similar or worse constraints are doing better than us, as you know.

The majority of 3 year olds believe in Father Christmas but it doesn't make them right. Apparently the fat beardy guys' existence remains a matter of dispute.
The majority of posters on this forum are incapable of discussing a topic without repeating the mantra that everything is either a reason why the manager should go or raises the question of when he should go. I've just read an article wherein Dougie allegedly says that he believes the players will come good. Not an especially controversial story and pretty much what you'd expect from the standard PR guff output of a football club. Even this attracted a comment about why he should leave. 

It's now apparently compulsory to introduce the topic of Dougie's departure into any conversation. 
"New pie supplier at the Macron? Well they'll taste better when DF leaves." 

The performances and results have been poor and nobody is arguing they're not.
But it is entirely reasonable to question the reasons for this failure - especially when so many of the facts behind what is happening on the pitch are unknown.

Automatically assuming that the manager is at fault and then making a further assumption that a replacement (if available) would be any better is not just risky - it's reckless.

And yet it's the default position of the football community who then (somewhat ironically) go on to wonder why new appointments often don't work out, bemoan the constant changes and applaud clubs who show long term faith in their managers who go on to eventually have long term success.

This is a forum for opinions and it happens that my opinion is that we shouldn't fall into the obvious trap yet again. If it was a popularity contest I'd slag off DF and dispense with the due diligence all day long but I don't feel the need to be popular. 

I have plenty of reasons to question Dougie's selections and tactics and signings - and wouldn't be at all upset if he was fired but for reasons outlined elsewhere I think he'll be given every opportunity to turn it around.

In this scenario it is only logical and sensible to consider the other factors which are potentially not the manager's fault though as any incoming manager would inherit those problems. Write them off at your peril - I'm sure the Board aren't that hasty.

Nobody is "defending failure". I'm trying to get to the bottom of it rather than jumping to conclusions like the "majority". [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

And DF doesn't make post-match "judgements". He says a few words that have been scripted for him by a PR suit that are meant to raise the spirits of the fans and players and make a dire situation seem not so bad. That is the function of PR media statements. Only a fool would think that it in any way represents what Dougie thinks although TBF there are plenty of the "majority" who seem to think press releases represent the managers views and not the party line.

So let's get this straight.......

Anybody who thinks they know what Freedman is actually thinking is a sheep, because we can't possibly know what his thought processes are, so we should stop trying to work it out and think for ourselves.

But then, you would have us disregard what he says in his post-match interviews because "only a fool" would think that his words actually represent his thoughts.......?

How can you state this if, by your own assertion, none of us know what he's thinking?

Given the fact that we don't inhabit his head, the best, and indeed only, real indicator we can have of his thought processes and beliefs is what comes out of his mouth.......surely?


You can't slag everybody off and say we're stupid for trying to work out what he's thinking and making assumptions about it then turn round in the next breath and say "Ignore his press statements because I know he doesn't really think that"........

wanderlust wrote:

The majority of 3 year olds believe in Father Christmas but it doesn't make them right. Apparently the fat beardy guys' existence remains a matter of dispute.
The majority of posters on this forum are incapable of discussing a topic without repeating the mantra that everything is either a reason why the manager should go or raises the question of when he should go. I've just read an article wherein Dougie allegedly says that he believes the players will come good. Not an especially controversial story and pretty much what you'd expect from the standard PR guff output of a football club. Even this attracted a comment about why he should leave. 

It's now apparently compulsory to introduce the topic of Dougie's departure into any conversation. 
"New pie supplier at the Macron? Well they'll taste better when DF leaves." 

The performances and results have been poor and nobody is arguing they're not.
But it is entirely reasonable to question the reasons for this failure - especially when so many of the facts behind what is happening on the pitch are unknown.

Automatically assuming that the manager is at fault and then making a further assumption that a replacement (if available) would be any better is not just risky - it's reckless.

And yet it's the default position of the football community who then (somewhat ironically) go on to wonder why new appointments often don't work out, bemoan the constant changes and applaud clubs who show long term faith in their managers who go on to eventually have long term success.

This is a forum for opinions and it happens that my opinion is that we shouldn't fall into the obvious trap yet again. If it was a popularity contest I'd slag off DF and dispense with the due diligence all day long but I don't feel the need to be popular. 

I have plenty of reasons to question Dougie's selections and tactics and signings - and wouldn't be at all upset if he was fired but for reasons outlined elsewhere I think he'll be given every opportunity to turn it around.

In this scenario it is only logical and sensible to consider the other factors which are potentially not the manager's fault though as any incoming manager would inherit those problems. Write them off at your peril - I'm sure the Board aren't that hasty.

Nobody is "defending failure". I'm trying to get to the bottom of it rather than jumping to conclusions like the "majority". [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

And DF doesn't make post-match "judgements". He says a few words that have been scripted for him by a PR suit that are meant to raise the spirits of the fans and players and make a dire situation seem not so bad. That is the function of PR media statements. Only a fool would think that it in any way represents what Dougie thinks although TBF there are plenty of the "majority" who seem to think press releases represent the managers views and not the party line.

And the prize for the most ridiculous post of the season goes to WL!

Also, the number of people in the world that believe in Father Christmas are in the minority, much like those Bolton supporters that believe DF will 'come good' (LOL LOL LOL- after almost 2 years of his dross we are to believe that if we hang in there like Utd did with Fergie (I know you didn't use that analogy, but its where this 'Give him time' crap comes from!) he will come good!!!!! ha ha ha! Tragic.

The problem is WL, old fatty Gartside thinks in the same way you do, so we are stuck with the prick in charge for the foreseeable and maybe longer if you both decide to give him an extended contract.

Wanderlust you are an utter bellend. Perhaps if you got out of your armchair and went to a game your opinion might carry more weight, but as things stand you know about as much about why BWFC are bottom of the league as I do why Fulham are struggling.

You seem to be suggesting anyone who thinks Dougie should go is crazy, and you are the voice of sanity. You keep going on and on and on about his lack of funds, but when challenged on his pisspoor signings, and why none of our players have improved under his leadership you go predictably quiet.

The reason why the majority are in the "Dougie Out!" camp is because they've had the displeasure of watching his shite team.

Put your foot down and I reckon you could make it to Horwich for the game tonight. Breadman will PM you directions.

Knob.

Lusty it doesn't really concern the players what happens off the pitch and in the boardroom, they couldn't care less i'll bet (i know i'm not a mind reader before you say anything).

The problem is on the pitch, Dougie has signed most of the players he wanted either on loan again or on contracts and got rid of the so-called troublesome element. This is his team and they are no better than last years team.
The problem is Dougie himself, the main role of a coach or manager is to coach and improve the players he has, if he gets money to spend then great but loads of other clubs have to work under the same restraints and are doing far better than us.