How is the Tory government doing?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:My surprise was that you’ve described yourself down to a tee in what you’re accusing Lust of. Nothing to do with your dyslexia

Well that's your opinion of me and you are entitled to it.

Doesn't mean that it is the right one though and I gave as an example my willing acceptance to show I can be and am wrong at times.

If I didn't have dyslexia I would have known I had spelt it incorrectly and would never have submitted it as an answer knowing it to be wrong would I?

If I am willing to accept that I was wrong/made a mistake and admitted so, then I don't fit the criteria that in your opinion describes me to a "tee" do I?

We all know you only post to have a little pop at me but I've never tried to tie myself up in knots to avoid admitting a mistake as Wanderlust consistently does with this example of self confessedly voting for Brexit on one forum, whilst for the last 3 years raged and insulted anyone on here for doing so, on here, and now doing everything possible to avoid admitting he did the very same thing himself, being the ultimate example.

I might be many things but I am pretty straight forward and honest and not hypocritical in real life and also fwiw on social media too.

I didn't realise or remember you had Dyslexia so apologies from me.

My Daughter has been told she has a mild form of it and does struggle with her reading a bit so i know it's not a laughing matter.

Norpig wrote:I didn't realise or remember you had Dyslexia so apologies from me.

My Daughter has been told she has a mild form of it and does struggle with her reading a bit so i know it's not a laughing matter.

It's not - one of my sons has it. The one about the dyslexic bloke who walked into a bra was in very bad taste. And I didn't know Sluffy has Sexdaily so I can only apologise.

14 ministers in Boris's Government received gifts or payments from the Russki's

A bit sensationalist but hardly surprising.

wanderlust wrote:A reminder from our government.

Re Scotland:
Being in a strong union, working together, having no trade barriers = makes us mighty!

Re the EU:
Being in a strong union, working together, having no trade barriers = undemocratic, why do you hate your country, take back control!

So true!

Norpig wrote:I didn't realise or remember you had Dyslexia so apologies from me.

My Daughter has been told she has a mild form of it and does struggle with her reading a bit so i know it's not a laughing matter.

Thanks but there was no need to apologise, I know you meant nothing by it.

It never held me back with my career and I guess to some extent made me who I am.

There is a theory that dyslexic's have higher IQ's than most, whilst I wouldn't wish to claim this what I can say is that having dyslexia made me think when I was writing as to what I wanted to say and which words I was confident to use that I could spell correctly! Maybe that's developed over the years as to why it comes naturally to me to think first before I do or say anything, to question and challenge what I read or hear, to think of other ways of doing stuff, alternatives?

Life's a lot easier these days for dyslexics with spellcheck and stuff that simply didn't exist when I was growing up.

I'm certain your daughter will be absolutely fine.

Cheers Sluffy, she has been getting extra help at school (an online tool called Nessy has helped a lot) and she does seem to have improved her reading a lot. 

Its not been officially diagnosed just something the teacher noticed last year. She's had issues with numbers and letters being the wrong way round but she is only 8 so hopefully will be something she can get over.

Apparently an official diagnosis is expensive to get and the teachers feel she has a mild form and doesn't need to be formally accessed yet.

Norpig wrote:Cheers Sluffy, she has been getting extra help at school (an online tool called Nessy has helped a lot) and she does seem to have improved her reading a lot. 

Its not been officially diagnosed just something the teacher noticed last year. She's had issues with numbers and letters being the wrong way round but she is only 8 so hopefully will be something she can get over.

Apparently an official diagnosis is expensive to get and the teachers feel she has a mild form and doesn't need to be formally accessed yet.

Don't know if this may be of some use, if not now, at a later date, but there is a British Dyslexia Association and this is what it says about children -

https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/advice/children

There also seems to be a local office near you if you ever had need to require its help -

https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/contact/find-a-local-dyslexia-association

Salford DA with East Manchester
Manchester, M30
Area covered
Greater Manchester



I'm sure though that she'll be absolutely fine.

Interesting development on the Government's exit negotiation front. If you remember, their official 2019 impact report on a no deal was a 6.3% to 9% fall in the economy's growth, £ billions costs for border controls and that overall it would be "disastrous" for the economy? And that was before Covid.
As the fifth round of negotiations ended the other day with Frost admitting that a deal is now unlikely, Brexiteer mouthpiece James Dyson - who has already moved his HQ abroad to avoid contributing tax to the UK - has cut 600 UK jobs despite promising that he would never do that.

So I'm wondering if folk think we should now boycott Dyson products in the spirit of Robert Maxwell's  "Buy British" strap line of the failed "I'm Backing Britain" campaign of the 60's which has remarkable similarities to Brexit? (although on that occasion the economy slumped and we joined the EC to save our ass)


Anyone think there's any future in boycotting products and services from companies that aren't British taxpayers?


NB: As an aside, when I was looking for an image of the badge above I discovered that back then, Paul McCartney wrote an anti-nationalist song called "I'm backing the UK" which morphed into "Back in the USSR" - I never knew!

Also anyone remember that the "Buy British" T-shirts were actually manufactured in Portugal because they couldn't find a British manufacturer that could compete?

Deja Vu or what?

Anyhoo given that the Government is clearly not "Getting Brexit Done" anyone think there's mileage in  an updated version of the "Buy British" campaign to try again to salvage our economy?

I would have thought it impossible for a govt to have to make so many u-turns. A little bit of prior consideration for the consequences of their pronouncements wouldn't go amiss.
Then, at the very least, some poor minister like Helen Whately wouldn't have to try to outface the questioners on the sudden rethink about quarantine plans like some programmed robot. 
And never ever an apology....

As ever, their executing is piss poor, but at least they are doing it for the right reasons. There is also some truth in what Van Tam (?), in that there is no perfect time to do this, so why wait?

okocha wrote:I would have thought it impossible for a govt to have to make so many u-turns. A little bit of prior consideration for the consequences of their pronouncements wouldn't go amiss.

You've spent the last few months telling us how the government were too slow in their initial response to the virus, but now they've done something swift and decisive you're saying the opposite. I'm interested how you think they should have handled this.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

You've spent the last few months telling us how the government were too slow in their initial response to the virus, but now they've done something swift and decisive you're saying the opposite. I'm interested how you think they should have handled this.

I know this one's for Okocha but the "quick and decisive action" re Spain seems to be either ill-thought through or a strategic move - not sure which yet.
If it's been done to protect Brits, then the quarantine should have been applied to the specific areas experiencing an upturn i.e. Catalonia and Aragon both of which are in the north east rather than a blanket move covering the top holiday destinations in the islands and costas which aren't experiencing an upturn.
If it's been done as a shot across the bows of the EU re the exit negotiations, it's a good cover that may avoid retaliation but it's very, very risky.
Our Government refused to join the EU working group to revitalise tourism last month so it may be related to that however if the EU decides to quarantine EU citizens returning from the UK we'll be worse off than any single EU country.
Just under 25 million EU citizens visited the UK for tourism purposes in 2019.
In the same period Brits undertook just under 67 million tourism trips to the EU but that was spread across all 26 countries.
Personally I don't think it was done for strategic purposes - at least I hope they are not that naive - in which case the Foreign Office should have done what they do elsewhere in the world i.e. target the specific affected or dangerous areas e.g. the north jungle of Thailand but not the touristic south for japanese encephalitis.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

You've spent the last few months telling us how the government were too slow in their initial response to the virus, but now they've done something swift and decisive you're saying the opposite. I'm interested how you think they should have handled this.

Not "swift and decisive" but swift and rash.

 It all boils down to the same fault:- inability to think clearly or make sound decisions at the right times, sometimes too hasty and sometimes much too slow. 

Lots of evidence that Boris is not bright or articulate; he thinks a lot of enthusiastic waffle punctuated with a few Latin phrases will sound impressive but he will not fool most people with even half a brain. 

He needs very good advice from those around him but is surrounded by nodding sycophants or is influenced by the rash, destabilising ideas and actions of Cummings. 

He lashes out emotionally at Starmer's cool scrutiny at PMQs because he knows he has met his superior intellect.

okocha wrote:
Not "swift and decisive" but swift and rash.

 It all boils down to the same fault:- inability to think clearly or make sound decisions at the right times, sometimes too hasty and sometimes much too slow. 

Lots of evidence that Boris is not bright or articulate; he thinks a lot of enthusiastic waffle punctuated with a few Latin phrases will sound impressive but he will not fool most people with even half a brain. 

He needs very good advice from those around him but is surrounded by nodding sycophants or is influenced by the rash, destabilising ideas and actions of Cummings. 

He lashes out emotionally at Starmer's cool scrutiny at PMQs because he knows he has met his superior intellect.

Utter waffle.

It was swift and decisive, the chances of people getting the virus in Spain and spreading it round the UK have been reduced. AND THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Utter waffle.

It was swift and decisive, the chances of people getting the virus in Spain and spreading it round the UK have been reduced. AND THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

I see what you're saying but there's about as much chance of catching the virus in most of Spain as there is anywhere else - including staying in the UK. 
In reality the only safe place is to stay in your own home, wash down everything you have delivered and fight off visitors with a shitty stick.
If "the science" is to be believed I'm surprised the Spanish are willing to let Brits visit - it's the old "acceptable deaths v economy" equation.

There is only one part of Spain that is worse off than Blackburn and most parts have lower rates then the UK. This explains it.

The government, like those of many other governments around the world find themselves between a rock and a hard place being they can't let the virus get out of control and overwhelm the health service yet at the same time need to get the economy moving to prevent a financial disaster.

On top of that they need to do it with the good will of the public - and we've seen already that many already don't seem to think the rules apply to them from Cummings to the 'laughing gas' canister loving chavs up and down the country!

If that's not hard enough they also have to do it with the built in time delay from catching and spreading the virus before people show symptoms of having it!

My guess as to what happened and why goes something like this.

It was clear by the time the lockdown ended that many people had grown weary of it and had began to flout it. At the same time it was imperative to get as many/all sectors of the economy going again and one of the worst effected was travel and tourism.

When we were coming out of lockdown many of the European country's started to unlock their boarders again and there became a huge pressure by airlines and travel company's for us to do the same.

The government had both a desire and faced a public pressure to do so - even the the medical experts were advising against but established these air bridges anyway.

Well looking at things now it seems that a number of European country's are now experience the dreaded 'second wave' of the virus (as I type I see Johnson is saying exactly this!) and maybe our youth topped up on Nitrous Oxide and cheap booze partying hard with other youths from around Spain, and Germany, might not be the best idea if we want to prevent a second wave ourselves and have thus decided to slam the door shut as fast as they could.

Tbh I reckon it is hard to know what to do for the best whoever happened to be in government at this time but at the end of the day unless we are in a country like China where lockdown MEANS lockdown, then you've got to control things the best you can and having masses who clearly have given up on lock down here, coming back and self isolating for 10/14 days is simply not going to be adhered to, so probably best to stop them mixing with others from country's were the virus is spreading again.

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Utter waffle.

It was swift and decisive, the chances of people getting the virus in Spain and spreading it round the UK have been reduced. AND THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

I see what you're saying but there's about as much chance of catching the virus in most of Spain as there is anywhere else - including staying in the UK. 
In reality the only safe place is to stay in your own home, wash down everything you have delivered and fight off visitors with a shitty stick.
If "the science" is to be believed I'm surprised the Spanish are willing to let Brits visit - it's the old "acceptable deaths v economy" equation.

There is only one part of Spain that is worse off than Blackburn and most parts have lower rates then the UK. This explains it.

The big difference though is that Covid doesn't just stop in one place.

I'm sure people from these areas in Spain are having holidays at the beaches, along with folk from other country's such as Germany who are having a second wave too.

It's not like everybody is going to Blackburn but as far as I'm aware there's nothing stopping the people of Blackburn, Bradford and other new cases hot spots from this country and similar places across Europe going to the Spanish holiday resorts and all mixing together.

The big problem is that people have the virus and are infectious but don't show symptoms, so nobody knows who has it and can pass it on and who doesn't.

And does anyone really think most people will voluntary isolate for 10/14 days when they get back because I don't!

PS - in your example it states that the Balearics rate is 8 per 100,000 population, which IS higher than England's current rate (not by much admittedly) and I suspect even higher than the UK rate if Scotland and Wales were added.

I agree with most of your earlier post and perhaps unintentionally you make a good case for stopping all travel abroad however we were discussing the arbitrariness of applying quarantine to the whole of Spain regardless of the situation in the main holiday resorts or elsewhere in Europe or the world for that matter. If as you say, they are having a second wave in Germany why didn't the government apply the same criteria to Germany?
By applying a blanket ruling, doesn't that open the door for other countries applying the same for travel to the whole of the UK, purely based on the situation in Blackburn? 

Risky game to play as tourism contributes £67 billion to UK GDP but moreover with the decline of industry the tourism sector was projected in 2019 to grow to £257 billion by 2025 i.e. 10% of GDP so we could really suffer is other Governments follow suit.

And I agree that a lot of idiots won't self-isolate - but the Government won't enforce it.
If covid is going to continue to flare up in hotspots does that mean that we can look forward to quarantine being recommended - and without enforcement it really isn't anything more than a recommendation - by Governments around the world on a regular basis?