The Davies Delusion

Lofty_Love wrote:The best way to determine who is underperforming in the team is to count all the players who have performed well, or at least haven't disappointed :

Bogdan
Mills
Knight (never though id say that)
Eagles
Spearing
SKD
Chungy (At the start of the season he played well I thought, one of the few with vision and trickery, then he said to the BEN we needed to play more passing football, now hes been dropped...)


So the way I see it is our worst areas are our two full back slots, attacking midfield, and a second striker.

You usually talk sense but some of this is rubbish.

The defence has been a shambles all season yet you think Knight & Mills have been ok? They are the bloody problem. One is completely immobile and crap in the air, the other a headless chicken just waiting to give a free-kick or goal away. The fact Coyle is forced to use these two useless bastards is why he should be sacked - they wouldn't get in any other Championship team.

As for Chung Lee, give it up man. He went shite long before his injury, his form since he came back has been a continuation of that pisspoor play. Rubbish player, we should have flogged him to Wigan when we had chance.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

As for Chung Lee, give it up man. He went shite long before his injury, his form since he came back has been a continuation of that pisspoor play. Rubbish player, we should have flogged him to Wigan when we had chance.

Chungy hasn't been the same player since he came back from injury but it's far too early to write him off just yet.

I read the opening post and breathed a sigh of relief that I'm not the only one seeing what jayjay is seeing.
On paper, Davies is having a good season. In reality, he is a major stumbling block in the fluency of our play.
I don't get this ideology of "strikers are meant to score goals, defenders are meant to defend, we can't keep a clean sheet, so it's the defenders that are at fault". How well the players ahead of the defenders function is a key determinant in the level at which the back line is exposed, thus the number of chances the opposition is likely to create over 90 minutes, thus the likelihood of us conceding goals. The level at which Davies "slows us down in attacking positions" (which incidentally I think hits the nail on the head) is forever making life all the easier for the opposition in more senses than one.

doffcocker wrote:
I don't get this ideology of "strikers are meant to score goals, defenders are meant to defend, we can't keep a clean sheet, so it's the defenders that are at fault".

You don't get that defenders are at fault if you are shipping goals in every game? And you don't get that a striker is supposed to score goals? The clue is in the name Doffcocker.

When you buy shoes do you wear them on your hands?

I'd totally agree if we played like Barca when Davies went off, hell i'd agree if we played like Derby when Davies went off. But we don't we're EXACTLY the same. Long aimless balls over the top and into the corner.

The reason we come under pressure is sometimes, sometimes poor forward play but 99% of the time it's poor possession play.

defenders who happily give it away by lumping it long instead of looking short, or Mids who will never show for the ball.

What else can a forward do with a ball thats hit over his head? Use a magnet? Unless you get an elite hold up player like Ibrahimovich or Feliani long balls are generally going to come back or be given away.

If the manager can't see that after 18 months of abysmal football I'm worried, and thats a manager who "plays football the right way" and "loves wingers"

laughable that Davies takes any of the blame. And I'm someone who wouldn't have renewed his contract, but he isn't to blame for this mess.

jayjay23 wrote:I was at the game. I was sat behind Pratley and Chungy as they warmed up. I cannot be certain but I am pretty sure Chungy said (when all the fans were getting on the teams back) something along the lines of "I'm going if this carries on". Pratley, with a beaming but shocked smile, said, "Did you just say you're going"? Lee kind of just grinned back. Then Pratley shook his head and said something else that I couldn't make out.

going where? Whats he going to do quit? lol. He has a contract for 3 years so if he wants to "go" he'll have to buy himself out.

Good luck!

Natasha Whittam wrote:
You don't get that defenders are at fault if you are shipping goals in every game?

A fireguard is meant to guard a child from fire. If the fireguard gets repeatedly kicked to the point where the structure is partially broken, there's only so much guarding the fireguard can be expected to do.

With defenders it's a similar story. If they are repeatedly put under pressure because of their teammates ahead of them, there's only so many goals they can be expected to defend. If the opposition can play it past your front line and through your midfield like a knife through butter, you could have the best defenders in the world and still have trouble keeping them out.

doffcocker wrote:

With defenders it's a similar story. If they are repeatedly put under pressure because of their teammates ahead of them, there's only so many goals they can be expected to defend. If the opposition can play it past your front line and through your midfield like a knife through butter, you could have the best defenders in the world and still have trouble keeping them out.

True in some cases, but not ours. Our defenders are clueless, headless chickens with the ball control of Bolton Hater after 20 pints.

If you honestly think Knight, Mills, Mears & Ricketts are doing ok I suggest you are on the wind-up.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
If you honestly think Knight, Mills, Mears & Ricketts are doing ok I suggest you are on the wind-up.

I don't. That they are not being helped by what's in front of them is my suggestion.

doffcocker wrote:

I don't. That they are not being helped by what's in front of them is my suggestion.

Fine. So are you going to accept that Davies is being hindered by a crap midfield and awful defenders?

Davies is the secondary problem, in my humble opinion. The real problem is our erstwhile manager, Owen Coyle. We have managed to play some decent stuff on occasion, even pretty stuff. That team goal finished by Mark Davies (you know the one I mean) even had SKD making a back heel and there were gentle chips and nice touches all round. He seems to have decided that we won't be doing any more of that, unfortunately. Chungy likes to dribble and pass the ball along the pitch? Screw you, Chungy - sit your ass down. Sordell lilkes to dribble and shoot? Screw you, Sordell - sit in the stands. What, Petrov dribbles and squares the ball? Oh hell no, Petrov - sit your ass down. Wylde dribbles and squares the ball? Who the hell do you think you are, Wylde? Coyle has decided he likes plodders. I suspect he is in panic mode and has made a determination that there is only one way we will get out of the Championship, and that is via a long ball to SKD to 'flick on'. If that master plan doesn't work, it is clearly the Referee's fault. He blames referee's without fail after every game we have not won this season - so much so, that I have to check the date of the match reports to make sure I am reading the current one. I am certain that if the players were directed to play in a different manner, and the players were selected that would fit a different system, we would be seeing a totally different team than what we have been subjected to in recent times. Coyle has also decided that he is going to sink or swim with Kevin Davies up front. I am happy that he scored goals yesterday, but any decent striker is going to score eventually given enough minutes on the pitch and enough opportunities to do so. This means that Sordell would most likely have done the same with the same opportunities. The style of play we now employ is not going to change even if the formation does. It is of note that our under 18's have been in impressive form this season, dispatching the highly thought of Everton team 4-2, among others. They do not play the same brand of football as the seniors do (obviously) and employ instead a flowing style of pass-and-move that both excites and brings results. Before we discuss the finances required to have a team playing like that at the senior level, just look at the Swansea team of last season that 'out-Arsenaled' Arsenal in terms of passing and possession. I submit that Kevin Davies is the main symptom of a disease called Owen Coyle. Apologies, this was meant to be a post - not an article.

They're not helped by whats in front of them.

but you (doff, jayjay) seem to be of the opinion that the only person in front of them is Davies.

Which is not the case.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:They're not helped by whats in front of them.

but you (doff, jayjay) seem to be of the opinion that the only person in front of them is Davies.

Which is not the case.

Forgive me for you misunderstanding myself.
My gripe is not with Kevin Davies. It is with Coyle choosing Kevin Davies week in, week out, regardless of performance. But more than that is that he leaves him on for 90 mins EVERY TIME. Even if he is clearly dead. Look back through the recent comments on games and you will see me sticking up for Davies where others are on his back. Davies is running himself into the ground - I can see that. You can see that. Surely Coyle can see it too. But at the same time we have to realise that we cannot expect Davies to play 90 mins twice a week for a full season. Soon we won't have him as an option at all.
Davies does have his weaknesses which bug the hell out of me but the problem overall is that the KD plan seems to be the only plan. The system was not working at all against Leeds in the 2nd half but Coyle insisted it stayed the same. Let's face it we are not going to score from 2 corners in every match are we? No. We need to be beating teams by scoring in open play and by HOPEFULLY dominating teams at the Reebok. Leeds were on the back foot for much of the first half last night and who is to say that a more capable footballing player might not have bagged 3 by half time.
I am looking for Coyle to make changes to the system and one of the casualties of that will have to be Davies if we intend to rip teams open.

jayjay23 wrote:
I am looking for Coyle to make changes to the system and one of the casualties of that will have to be Davies if we intend to rip teams open.

We don't have the players to rip anyone open.

There's virtually no conviction in our attacking demeanour, largely due to Davies' slowness alluded to in the opening post. In fairness to him, his pass completion rate this season must be astronomically good - how often do we see him pick up the ball in a promising position, spend an eternity controlling it, then thinking about it, then playing a basic pass. All the while, the attacking momentum has died, and the opposition has had time to regroup defensively. There's a bloke that sits behind me and says "Well done, Kev!" everytime. Well done for what? Completing a simple and often poorly chosen ball that other players could have done in half the time, had indeed they chosen to pass the ball as opposed to actually running with it?
I think terenceanne hit the nail on the head in another thread, explaining that it sometimes works to lump it forward to Davies, but over the course of the season, it will amount to very little.

OC told us he likes good skillfull footballers and nice play .....then he goes ahead and allows hoofball....... there's no point waffling on about it .....but last night when Boggers rolled the ball out resulted in one of the biggest cheers ...... It seems thousands of us know something that OC can't get through the noggin.

We are not asking for Barca or Arsenal type skill but for christs sake a ten yard traingle passing it back and forth !!!!......we did that at bloody school in practice.

Players who can't or won't do it .....get rid...... manager too stupid ....get rid......

I have no problem getting beat if we put forward our best team and play good football and get unlucky or just beat by a better outfit..... that's the game.

terenceanne wrote:OC told us he likes good skillfull footballers and nice play .....then he goes ahead and allows hoofball....... there's no point waffling on about it .....but last night when Boggers rolled the ball out resulted in one of the biggest cheers ...... It seems thousands of us know something that OC can't get through the noggin.

We are not asking for Barca or Arsenal type skill but for christs sake a ten yard traingle passing it back and forth !!!!......we did that at bloody school in practice.

Players who can't or won't do it .....get rid...... manager too stupid ....get rid......

I have no problem getting beat if we put forward our best team and play good football and get unlucky or just beat by a better outfit..... that's the game.

couldn't agree more.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

You usually talk sense but some of this is rubbish.

The defence has been a shambles all season yet you think Knight & Mills have been ok? They are the bloody problem. One is completely immobile and crap in the air, the other a headless chicken just waiting to give a free-kick or goal away. The fact Coyle is forced to use these two useless bastards is why he should be sacked - they wouldn't get in any other Championship team.

As for Chung Lee, give it up man. He went shite long before his injury, his form since he came back has been a continuation of that pisspoor play. Rubbish player, we should have flogged him to Wigan when we had chance.

I honestly think Knight and Mills have been ok and would be fine in any other Championship team, look at the other defenders:

Mears - everyone agrees hes pretty substandard
Alonso - probably get beaten in a race by Robinson
Ricketts - Like him, but played out of position for 12 months
Ream - Don't know whats happened to him but he has even less strength than last season

I really dislike Knight and didn't want his contract renewed but ill hold my hands up and say hes performed best of the lot.

Chungy - ok maybe im a bit bias with him, but when I saw him play he looked like the brightest one on the pitch, but no one was on his level, he got in good positions but lacked the edge, no doubt due to the time hes been out, so that will come back, but even so he had more skill than anyone else in the team... would you rather Chung or M.Davies on the wing? at least you realise Chung is playing.


Ultimately its down to Coyle though, we can complain about the players all we want but it all boils back to Coyle, which I don't like saying since I protected him a lot last season.... damn..