Would you vote for the Green Party?

No T.R.O.Y you make your own choices on the evidence before you and clearly we both have a view on that. Equally so do all of the countries involved and as I indicated, if all the science, or 97% of it, confirms the worst scenario, then you would expect everyone to agree on it. Surely, if a meteorite was hurtling towards the Earth and probably destroying it, I’m sure everyone would accept the essential need to work together towards resolving it. For millions of years, since the planet was formed, the climate has changed, it’s nature. There have been times in the past when Earth was hotter and times when CO2 levels were higher and neither animals, nor human activity had any effect on that. I accept that we’re not helping with things like CO2 production and deforestation but I just don’t accept that it’s the main, or even the biggest cause of the planet heating.

Lusty, I lived through those years of fear and concern over nuclear weapons, in fact we still do, but at least you could factually work out the potential ramifications of using them and the fact that both sides new the consequences pretty well assured they would never be used and to be fair it so far has and they remain unused. As far as emerging economies continuing to use fossil fuels despite the warnings, of course they want to catch up but they aren’t stupid. If the planet dies, so do they and then whatever fuel they use doesn’t matter. Instead of penalising ourselves we should be assisting these economies to grow through sharing of technology to offset the use of fossil fuels. Of course we want them to move to renewables but at the moment for some weaker and poorer economies, that’s just not possible and certainly not in the timescales projected. 

I have absolutely no argument with moving towards renewables but not through being unnecessarily forced there just because a self interested government says I should. When an electric car costs the same as an ICE vehicle, holds its second hand value and can drive and be refuelled as quickly as an ICE vehicle can, then I’ll consider buying one. When a system that’s as cheap, as easy to fit and as good and reliable as my Gas boiler is created, then I might consider changing it but u then you can keep your heat pumps thank you. We are being lied to just to fulfil an agenda, just as the propaganda programme is brainwashing the public into accepting so many things that are against our previous beliefs. You don’t see that and don’t believe it. Fine, I do but we won’t know who’s right for some time will we, so we might just as well agree to disagree because neither of us will convince the other.

Ye and I’m asking you what evidence you have to say the science is false? It’s not a complicated question.

63's hat looks lovely doesn't it?

WS63 is renowned on other sites for spouting utter nonsense there too....

okocha wrote:WS63 is renowned on other sites for spouting utter nonsense there too....

Ha, takes one to know one as they say Oko and love the hat Norpig. 

Can I just say at the outset that nobody believes in Climate Change more than me. Millions of years of “factual” historical data proves it, so it’s unarguable. What is arguable are the absurd and fabricated “projections of doom by “experts.” They have taken data and manipulated it to suit their own ends, exactly like another so called “expert” Professor Ferguson who calculated 500k Covid deaths, or the IMF and virtually every other bunch of “experts” who calculated the decimation of our economy if we dared to vote to leave the EU, let along have the audacity to actually do it.

Can one of you actually appraise me of when the discussions took place between experts on both sides of the climate change debate, so that people with less knowledge like us might understand the choice? Was there ever a debate on the “experts” view on Covid, or the lockdown? Nope, because yet again, the cancel culture so prevalent in society these days doesn’t allow it. If you don’t believe the “accepted experts” then you are totally dismissed.

Climate change is just one area of our lives which is being trolled to make us accept it as the incontrovertible truth. Well sorry chaps but I just don’t, any more than I accept schools encouraging 5-7 year olds to wear skirts, or that I should accept trans men or women as gender equals, or we should feel guilty for being White, or being the cause of all the current climate problems through creating the industrial revolution, which I thought gave far more to the world than it took away.

I’ll repeat again, if you want people to believe a lie, it has to be big enough and told often enough to succeed. Sadly I’m afraid that quip of Goering’s proves that’s just as true today as it was in the war and people still fall for it.

I've seen the light. Climate change and covid is a hoax!

Or are they simply stupid?

okocha wrote:WS63 is renowned on other sites for spouting utter nonsense there too....

I'd only agree with WS63 when he was right  but he isn't right about everything. Well I don't think he is and there are some things I know about that I don't think he does. There may, by the same token, be things he knows about that I don't but it ain't business finance.

As for Okocha and his bid to be pathetico numero uno, he's deffo a really strong candidate

Whitesince63 wrote:Can one of you actually appraise me of when the discussions took place between experts on both sides of the climate change debate

Quote an ‘expert’ on your side of the debate.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
I'd only agree with WS63 when he was right  but he isn't right about everything. Well I don't think he is and there are some things I know about that I don't think he does. There may, by the same token, be things he knows about that I don't but it ain't business finance.

As for Okocha and his bid to be pathetico numero uno, he's deffo a really strong candidate.

I’ve never claimed to be right about everything TB, or even right about anything but I do have a view on things and in my view, Climate Change is real. In my job it was necessary to cut through all the noise (red herrings) and identify the facts. To make a true comparison of anything, the circumstances must be exactly the same for both to be accurate. Covid statistics have been so badly reported by the government they’re a joke in themselves. Do I believe in Covid? Of course and I’m happy to be fully vaccinated but it doesn’t mean I think the government has handled it well.

As for Climate Change, I believe fully in it but I do not believe that it is largely created or influenced by Humans and I still consider that the biggest threat to our planet is population explosion creating ever increasing demands for all the things Climate Change activists consider a problem. I’m no brain surgeon, no brighter or intelligent than anyone else and way behind many but I’m not stupid either and I’m definitely not a conspiracy theorist. I also don’t insult people with a different view, just ask that we use the mind of our own that we have and make our own beliefs from that. I believe governments have agendas and for me Climate Change emergency is one of them for the West but not obviously for all!!

I suspect, WS63, that kind and caring Okocha may have been referring to the collective wisdom of the  gentlemen of Wandersways who seem to have concluded, and recorded in typically elegant style, that BWFC's new CEO is 'a knob' and 'a condescending tosspot'.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:I suspect, WS63, that kind and caring Okocha may have been referring to the collective wisdom of the  gentlemen of Wandersways who seem to have concluded, and recorded in typically elegant style, that BWFC's new CEO is 'a knob' and 'a condescending tosspot'.

You’re probably right TB but from what I’ve seen of our CEO so far, I’d have to agree and it’s not often I say that with Oko!!

If you can’t provide a dot of evidence can you at least explain what you’re banging on about? What is the agenda of Western governments here? Why create a fake emergency and how did they convince the scientific world to go along with it?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:If you can’t provide a dot of evidence can you at least explain what you’re banging on about? What is the agenda of Western governments here? Why create a fake emergency and how did they convince the scientific world to go along with it?

What is up with you, I’ve explained entirely my opinion on things and don’t intend to elaborate any more? All the evidence you need is all around you as well as in history books if you can be bothered to read them. If you believe there’s a climate change emergency created by humans, that’s fine, it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I did look at some of the data you posted and it seemed to me that there was considerable disagreement by the worlds meteorologists, not that humans aren’t partly to blame for climate change but how much. Consequently your 97% of “experts” figure is complete nonsense. Of course humans contribute, we live here, but how much?

I removed a small tree from my garden recently, which I know will no longer consume carbon, so I accept that makes me part of the problem, just like people using cloud on smart phones, trading cryptocurrencies, as one of the previous posts indicated. The sun has an effect, volcanoes have an effect and so do so many other things we use today. I accept all of those things but I don’t see the same politicians crying climate emergency, not using these systems, or flying or the other modern day “essentials we take for granted.” 

The Climate has always changed, the land masses have always changed, islands appear and disappear, the planet changes infinitely and whilst humans do add to the problems, we aren’t either the cause or the solution, we can’t stop that so please stop pretending we can.

One question that intrigues me is that if Covid and global warming are conspiracies what is it that the people behind them gain?

i.e. why would they do it?

Whitesince63 wrote:

You’re probably right TB but from what I’ve seen of our CEO so far, I’d have to agree and it’s not often I say that with Oko!!

I have my reservations about Mr Hart too but that was not the point I was trying to make, WS63.

Okocha was seeking to justify his denigration of your opinions (and you) on the  basis that his opinion of you was shared by unnamed but foul-mouthed and abusive congregations of ageing adolescents, WW being the largest.

You’ve said what you think, you haven’t explained why or given any supporting evidence. As Lust says, if it’s one big conspiracy - why?? If all the evidence is ‘in history books’ please post some. 

It’s not my opinion that the situation now is dire and being driven by humans, it’s scientific fact. So if you’re going to come on here and claim the scientists have it wrong then post something (anything!) to support that. 

Brexit, Covid and Climate change are three massive issues it sounds like you’ve come down on the wrong side of - ignoring clear evidence based on what you would like to think.

T.R.O.Y I don’t think there’s really much point in continuing dialogue if you’re not going to actually read what I’ve said properly. Where have I said that Climate Change and Covid are conspiracies? I’ve already accepted both as realities but I firmly believe both have been excessively hyped by both governments and other bodies to gain credence with public opinion. As far as providing evidence from history, why should I repeat it here when it’s already written down elsewhere. 

It obviously is your opinion that Climate Change is dire and driven by humans, you’ve stated here many times but whether or not it’s scientific fact is what the debate is about. Actually, when asked if humans were totally responsible for Climate Change, 43% of meteorologists actually disputed it. However, when asked if humans “contributed towards it, that figure increased to over 80%. Of course we contribute to it but how much is the real question. 

Look, whatever I write, you and the other “believers” on here will find something to disagree with me on so rather than just carry on that theme I’ll desist from contributing to this thread. I’m all for reasoned debate but I’m afraid in this day and age, it’s impossible to hold a different view to the masses without being ridiculed. I’m not into that so I’ll leave you to just agree amongst yourselves.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
I have my reservations about Mr Hart too but that was not the point I was trying to make, WS63.

Okocha was seeking to justify his denigration of your opinions (and you) on the  basis that his opinion of you was shared by unnamed but foul-mouthed and abusive congregations of ageing adolescents, WW being the largest.

Ah, cheers TB, I obviously misunderstood Oko’s post!! Yes, I’m afraid that if you disagree with “The Club” on WW you are abused and misrepresented, a bit like Oko tries to do on here but so far I haven’t been banned from here as I have a couple of times from WW. It really is a shame that posters can’t just accept that the whole point of boards like this is to encourage different opinions. At the end of the day we all have views, whether it’s Wanderers, Climate, Covid, Brexit or anything else. I enjoy discussing these things and hearing different views and despite what some on here think, I’m prepared to have my mind changed. Take MAT, who is Labour and myself who is Tory, yet we have significant differences of opinion, which we express politely but challengingly, without needing to resort to insults or criticism. Surely that’s how it should be?

Whitesince63 wrote:

Ah, cheers TB, I obviously misunderstood Oko’s post!! Yes, I’m afraid that if you disagree with “The Club” on WW you are abused and misrepresented, a bit like Oko tries to do on here but so far I haven’t been banned from here as I have a couple of times from WW. It really is a shame that posters can’t just accept that the whole point of boards like this is to encourage different opinions. At the end of the day we all have views, whether it’s Wanderers, Climate, Covid, Brexit or anything else. I enjoy discussing these things and hearing different views and despite what some on here think, I’m prepared to have my mind changed. Take MAT, who is Labour and myself who is Tory, yet we have significant differences of opinion, which we express politely but challengingly, without needing to resort to insults or criticism. Surely that’s how it should be?

I may disagree with some of your opinions White, but I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. The more diverse the opinions are, the better the banter - providing folk don't go down the route of attempting to discredit the person rather than the opinion expressed.

I am a firm believer in climate change but I totally agree with WS63 on over-population, this will get us long before the sun/sea does.

But it's a vote winner for smiling politicians to get behind climate change, telling people to stop procreating, not so much.