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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Is there going to be a war?

Is there going to be a war?

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Angry Dad
BoltonTillIDie
Boggersbelief
Norpig
boltonbonce
okocha
wanderlust
Whitesince63
Sluffy
13 posters

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61Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Wed Mar 02 2022, 07:59

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:Story coming out that the Ukranians have eliminated Chechen assassins sent to kill President Zelenskyy after receiving a tip off from Russian FSB (KGB) agents opposed to the war.
Here - and elsewhere.
That’s great news on both counts if true Lusty. You just get the feeling that the heart isn’t there in the Ruskie soldiers to fight this war and if even the KGB are against it you wonder where that leaves Putin. Wouldn’t it be great if there were enough in Moscow who felt that way to take Putin out and end this thing before too much damage is done on both sides. I know propaganda affects but surely the Russians must by now realise they’ve become international pariahs?

62Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Wed Mar 02 2022, 10:24

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 274372419_10166347485525537_621380998747515685_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=09cbfe&_nc_ohc=XpHZVQUGqwoAX8j45sQ&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr1-1

63Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Wed Mar 02 2022, 10:57

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:
That’s great news on both counts if true Lusty. You just get the feeling that the heart isn’t there in the Ruskie soldiers to fight this war and if even the KGB are against it you wonder where that leaves Putin. Wouldn’t it be great if there were enough in Moscow who felt that way to take Putin out and end this thing before too much damage is done on both sides. I know propaganda affects but surely the Russians must by now realise they’ve become international pariahs?
Hard to tell the true feeling of the people as our media spins the story as much as the Russians do, but there are plenty of reports that people in Russia are against Putin's war, however any attempts to publicise it or demonstrate are stamped out immediately.
I think Russians in general are very nationalistic and proud of their country having been brainwashed since birth, but even if there were enough dissenters, there is no chance of a revolution to overthrow the dictator.

64Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Wed Mar 02 2022, 17:54

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:
Hard to tell the true feeling of the people as our media spins the story as much as the Russians do, but there are plenty of reports that people in Russia are against Putin's war, however any attempts to publicise it or demonstrate are stamped out immediately.
I think Russians in general are very nationalistic and proud of their country having been brainwashed since birth, but even if there were enough dissenters, there is no chance of a revolution to overthrow the dictator.
I imagine those in East Germany, the Romanians, Bulgarians and other former Eastern Block countries felt the same way about there never being a revolution and the dictators being thrown out, so I wouldn’t write anything off Lusty. I accept Russia may be different but this time it isn’t the West overcoming them, it’s their friends and neighbours in Ukraine and that might make all the difference.

Clearly the propaganda will be spun Putins way but just as we in the U.K. will have formed families with Scottish, Welsh and Irish descent, so I imagine have the Russians and Ukrainians and that could change the thinking big style? I’d like to bet that many of the Russian soldiers have Ukrainian relatives and that may be one of the reasons they seem reluctant to fight. Politics is one thing but family is bigger so maybe the saying blood is thicker than water might turn out to be proven here?

65Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Wed Mar 02 2022, 18:43

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Whitesince63 wrote:
I imagine those in East Germany, the Romanians, Bulgarians and other former Eastern Block countries felt the same way about there never being a revolution and the dictators being thrown out, so I wouldn’t write anything off Lusty. I accept Russia may be different but this time it isn’t the West overcoming them, it’s their friends and neighbours in Ukraine and that might make all the difference.

Clearly the propaganda will be spun Putins way but just as we in the U.K. will have formed families with Scottish, Welsh and Irish descent, so I imagine have the Russians and Ukrainians and that could change the thinking big style? I’d like to bet that many of the Russian soldiers have Ukrainian relatives and that may be one of the reasons they seem reluctant to fight. Politics is one thing but family is bigger so maybe the saying blood is thicker than water might turn out to be proven here?
With Boris and Liz Truss in charge of diplomacy, I expect Putin and his troops to lay down their arms quicksticks now. After all, look how successful Johnson's intervention re the cause of Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe was...Blunderful stuff!

66Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 00:43

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

wanderlust wrote:Will Taiwan be next?

Seems like the Russkis have cleared it diplomatically with the Chinese - they would have to as China "rents" 5% of Ukraine's agricultural area - and considerately waited until the Winter Olympics is over before making their move, despite being ready for months - so it would come as no surprise if the Chinese made a Russian-sanctioned move on Taiwan within the next year or so. 

Quid pro quo sanctioning in the face of the spread of capitalism is not beyond imagination.
Reuters today reported that a "western intelligence report" claims that the Chinese a) had advanced knowledge Russia was going to invade and b) requested they didn't do it until the Winter Olympics were over.
Naturally the Chinese are denying it.

Perhaps the global response to the invasion may deter the Chinese from going into Taiwan now?

67Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 00:56

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The International Criminal Court has opened an investigation into possible war crimes in Ukraine dating back to 2013 - so this will encompass war crimes allegedly committed by the Ukranian Government against the Russian speaking citizens in the south which Putin claims is the basis of his invasion as well as those committed by the Russians in the current war.

This could be a good move towards finding a negotiated solution if they accept the ICC as arbiter investigating both sides.

It seems a lifetime ago when Trump was accused of threatening the Ukranians to get dirt on Joe Biden's son by telling them it was a condition of aid. Perhaps this is why the Americans seem ambivalent towards Ukraine's situation?

68Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 10:51

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

69Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 11:10

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I read about this offer but there's been no feedback on uptake - I guess it's attractive to many but I guess they'd be shit scared of doing it.

200k troops at $42420 USD = $8,484,000,000 - that's a hunk of cash for a struggling economy.

70Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 11:19

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

It seems the offer made on Twitter by Ukraine's Minister of Defence has been taken down, however a Polish MEP has suggested 3k euros + EU work permits + "With a big bonus if you hand over your tank, APC, Buk, Tochka, MLRS, helicopter, jet fighter or commander-in-chief."

Here's the article

I reckon they'd be wanting a bit more than that for a jet fighter Smile.

71Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 12:13

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Putin is NOT crazy and the Russian invasion is NOT failing. The West's delusions about this war - and its failure to understand the enemy - will prevent it from saving Ukraine, writes military analyst BILL ROGGIO


Daily Fail

72Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 13:41

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:

Putin is NOT crazy and the Russian invasion is NOT failing. The West's delusions about this war - and its failure to understand the enemy - will prevent it from saving Ukraine, writes military analyst BILL ROGGIO


Daily Fail
Exactly my thoughts. No amount of sanctions will prevent Russia from taking Ukraine eventually, it’s just a matter of time. I also agree that Putin wants to take Ukraine intact and not destroy its infrastructure too badly. Listening to the Russian side of it in the press conference this morning, you can understand Russia’s concerns about the constant Western encroachment into Eastern Europe and right up to their border if Ukraine were to join NATO or the EU. Putin has always said this is unacceptable yet the West has ignored that and carried on. Surely anyone with a modicum of common sense can see that’s crazy. I accept that Ukraine is a sovereign country and should be able to make its own decisions but you can not ignore its history and closeness to Russia itself. The Wests constant misjudgement of this is what is causing the escalation of damage that could be avoided with a little negotiation and statesmanship before more blood is spilt.

73Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 14:25

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Peace-peaceinourtime

74Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 15:11

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I wonder how many Brits would like the Germans to raise a massive army, march into Poland and take on the Russkis?

They have form Smile

75Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Thu Mar 03 2022, 18:50

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:The International Criminal Court has opened an investigation into possible war crimes in Ukraine dating back to 2013 - so this will encompass war crimes allegedly committed by the Ukranian Government against the Russian speaking citizens in the south which Putin claims is the basis of his invasion as well as those committed by the Russians in the current war.

This could be a good move towards finding a negotiated solution if they accept the ICC as arbiter investigating both sides.

It seems a lifetime ago when Trump was accused of threatening the Ukranians to get dirt on Joe Biden's son by telling them it was a condition of aid. Perhaps this is why the Americans seem ambivalent towards Ukraine's situation?
Americans are not ambivalent at all... and are donating to the cause of democracy.  The arts have made great statements supporting Ukraine... including the Metropolitan Opera opening their program singing the Ukrainian national anthem... and SNL opening with a Ukranian chorus.    Trump and Putin form their own evil empire and should live together.

76Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Fri Mar 04 2022, 02:10

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

OMG! The Russians have shelled Europe's largest nuclear power plant and it's now on fire. The International Nuclear Authority say if the reactors are breached it will be ten times worse than Chernobyl. 
Story here

77Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Fri Mar 04 2022, 08:33

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:OMG! The Russians have shelled Europe's largest nuclear power plant and it's now on fire. The International Nuclear Authority say if the reactors are breached it will be ten times worse than Chernobyl. 
Story here
This was my fear all along Lusty and if it doesn’t wake everybody up to what’s going on then I have to ask just what will it take? Surely the Russian Generals and those around them can see the dangers of nuclear problems, be it military warheads or power plants and can’t all be as mad as Putin. Time those around Putin either reigned him in or took matters into their own hands because if the worst happens there will be neither a Ukraine nor Russia!!

78Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Fri Mar 04 2022, 09:40

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:
This was my fear all along Lusty and if it doesn’t wake everybody up to what’s going on then I have to ask just what will it take? Surely the Russian Generals and those around them can see the dangers of nuclear problems, be it military warheads or power plants and can’t all be as mad as Putin. Time those around Putin either reigned him in or took matters into their own hands because if the worst happens there will be neither a Ukraine nor Russia!!
I suspect this was intended to take out the power supply and that the Russians targeted the "output" side of the plant rather than the reactors themselves so that there was no choice but to shout them down.

Risky business but it seems to have worked.

Civilians will have no electricity with which to cook the food they don't have.

79Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Fri Mar 04 2022, 23:27

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The USA and NATO surrender to Putin and refuse to create a no fly zone over Ukraine
Anything to avoid conflict as Putin's bluff pays off.

80Is there going to be a war? - Page 4 Empty Re: Is there going to be a war? Sat Mar 05 2022, 09:57

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Interesting - and credible speculation about Putin's next moves once Ukraine has been occupied in this left-wing rag.

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