The rise and rise of UKIP...

Soul Kitchen wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:I'm not a tory supporter so I won't be talking up their record, it's not "looking down" on anyone, it's more bemusement that anyone could think that the labour front bench is more "in touch" than dave and george. 

fact of the matter is labour bankrupted the country and the tories have had to clean up their shit, including 2 wars one of which was illegal.

So nowt to do with the banks then? 
So why fine them?

And how were the banks able to practice the things that got them in trouble....

okocha wrote:What about all the other countries that joined in the war against barbaric rule in Iraq and Afghanistan? Did they get it wrong too?

Quite simply, yes.

GW2 and the removal of Saddam was a war fought for all the wrong reasons, based on lies and it facilitated the rise of IS.

Iraq is now a far less stable place than it ever was under Saddam and we will be paying the price for stirring the hornet's nest for many years to come.

Ditto Afghanistan.

The terror training camps that were used as part of the justification to send troops in have simply been moved over the border into Pakistan, the flow of heroin out of the country continues unabated (actually more comes out now than before hostilities began) and Afghanistan remains a thoroughly dangerous place.

The Taliban will be back in control in about six months and nothing will have been achieved.

But thousands of young British men and women have been killed or seriously injured, just so that western politicians could try and win votes by being tough on militant Islam.

And that's criminal for me.

Nat -  Boncey beat me to it about foodbanks but i feel exactly the same as him, the amount of poverty in this country caused by the Tories because of benefit cuts and things like the bedroom tax have all been done under the blanket of having to bring down the deficit. Mark my words even if there wasn't a recession or deficit the Tories would have done exactly the same thing.
Add to this the constant battering of public sector workers and the privitising of yet another national resource in the Post Office.
Labour aren't perfect but they will always be a better option for me, the Liberals are now finished after so many broken promises and caving in to get a bit of power and UKIP don't have one cast iron policy, not even one for why they formed their party in the first place.

I think what you are trying to say is Labour have compassion, the Tories don't? 
I think you'll find those that bang the Tory drum also show a lack of compassion!?! 
I've met enough of them in my lifetime.

In the end, Breadman, world leaders have to be guided by their conscience, what they feel is the right thing to do based on what their intelligence services report to them. 
As I say, damned if you do act, and damned if you don't, but the telling factor here is that so many countries decided they had to take action.
 I'm not saying that the course of action and the aftermath were particularly well handled, and there are consequences no matter which way politicians choose to go, but the hysteria against Blair that some people engage in has to be balanced by a recognition that he was not alone in his conclusions both within the UK's political circles and internationally. He joined other nations in accordance with his Christian principles. You may disagree but the alternative was anathema to many.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Norpig wrote:

i vote labour and always will do, they don't always get it right but they at least are more in touch with us commoners than the Tories. How can anyone believe that 2 upper class clowns like Cameron and Osbourne have any clue about the average working man?

You do realise Ed Milliband went to Oxford?

Labour are no more in touch with the common man than any other party. I'm sorry, but if you're prepared to vote for the party that ruined the economy and took us into a pointless war not 5 years ago you really are a bellend.

Four points about the Tories that defines them....

- Taking away milk from school children
- The Community Charge  (aka Poll Tax)
- Sending in the army and SAS dressed as police against the miners
- (although it has to do with Liverpool)  Huge police cover up against mal-practice of the situation at Sheffield.

Sorry, Okocha.....not buying that one.

If you go looking for "atrocities" being perpetrated against the subjects of sovereign nations worldwide by their leaders, you will find plenty.

Why then, do we only seem to be moved to military intervention if the countries in question also (and apparently coincidentally) hold vast reserves of oil or are perceived to be of some strategic importance militarily?

(Bin Laden's hiding in Afghanistan - let's attack Afghanistan, impose our own set of values and way of life, set up a government that we can control and, er....oh yes....... try and kill him!)

Sorry, Iraq's now in chaos and Afghanistan will revert back to stone-age tribalism in about two minutes flat now that we've pulled out.

And what's been achieved?

Nothing.

And I would have hoped that the British Intelligence Community's reports that there weren't any WMD's in Iraq would have carried more weight with Blair, but instead he chose to ask God what he should do and The Big Fella sold him a pup.

And for that reason alone, I will never vote for any politician (of any hue) who purports to believe in God.

They should be sectioned, not given the nuclear launch codes.....

You have a point Bread.
Mugabe has had a free hand for years,and all we can do is throw up our hands in despair.
Not much for us in Zimbabwe.

We should really be invading Saudi Arabia soon because the ruling House of Saud are a right bunch of nasty bastards.

Let's see........

Breadman wrote:We should really be invading Saudi Arabia soon because the ruling House of Saud are a right bunch of nasty bastards.

Let's see........

The Saudis really are a horrible bunch. They treat women like shit and all things Christian are strictly taboo.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

Breadman wrote:We should really be invading Saudi Arabia soon because the ruling House of Saud are a right bunch of nasty bastards.

Let's see........

The Saudis really are a horrible bunch. They treat women like shit and all things Christian are strictly taboo.  

That would be an ecumenical matter.

bwfc71 wrote:
- Sending in the army and SAS dressed as police against the miners

That is an urban myth. It is simply not documented that such an occurrence took place.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

bwfc71 wrote:
- Sending in the army and SAS dressed as police against the miners

That is an urban myth. It is simply not documented that such an occurrence took place.

Lets wait for the 50 years ruling but I do believe it, such as other documents that were supposedly urban myth are actually true!

Trust me when I say the army and SAS were never deployed against the miners. The police infiltrated the miners by using Special Branch officers who would attend rallies dressed in the prerequisite flat cap to blend in with the locals. The myth emanated from there.

This is a fascinating read and provides plenty of insight:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Enemy-within-Thatchers-Against/dp/1844675084#customerReviews

No mention of the SAS though.

Have you fully read the book Bread?
The ramifications of Thatcher's vindictiveness aptly summed up as national vandalism at a cost of £37 billion to the nation was an interesting conclusion to the whole affair.
Still, they don't get where they are by being nice people?

Soul Kitchen wrote:Have you fully read the book Bread?
The ramifications of Thatcher's vindictiveness aptly summed up as national vandalism at a cost of £37 billion to the nation was an interesting conclusion to the whole affair.
Still, they don't get where they are by being nice people?

I've just bought a Maggie t-shirt off eBay.

Yeah, I read it a couple of years ago and found it fascinating.

I was only a teenager during the miners' strike but I remember thinking back then that what was happening was fundamentally wrong.

How do these people sleep at night knowing that their actions are putting entire communities on the bread line?

I couldn't do it, I know that.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Soul Kitchen wrote:Have you fully read the book Bread?
The ramifications of Thatcher's vindictiveness aptly summed up as national vandalism at a cost of £37 billion to the nation was an interesting conclusion to the whole affair.
Still, they don't get where they are by being nice people?

I've just bought a Maggie t-shirt off eBay.

Me too.

Mine's got this on it: