Transfer rumours !

A football club is a business and it employs people who need to be paid each month.

Players wages alone often total MORE than the club gets in, in income during the whole year!

Going by the last accounts filed. wages ate up £95 of every £100 BWFC made!



So whatever front the club puts forward the simple truth is that BWFC is losing money and only sustainable by someone, somewhere putting their hand in their pocket and throwing their money away, in order to keep us going for now.

I personally can't see what the plan is to turn a profit and get some of that money back, to whoever it is who has given it to the club.

I can only assume for now that whoever is throwing the money at the club is rich enough not to want it back.

There is an exiting debt of £5.5 owed to PBP and FV have just put themselves in hock for the £4.5m Bond - which needs to be paid back in 5 years time.

I've no idea at this stage how they can possibly do that, other than tale another loan (or bond") out.

So in short, the ST sales, ground receipts, shirt sales, etc, goes straight on the players wages, everything else, heating, lighting, maintenance etc, etc, etc, is paid for out of someone's private  pocket.

And for this season, ground improvements and transfer budget has been funded by the fans who bought the bonds.

There was no more money to strengthen the team, the bit that's left from the bond (circa £200k or so) is probably set aside for the January transfer window.

Bob and I keep on telling you all that club is not financially self sustainable, has a debt mountain of around £10m that it can't pay off and basically only keeping going by some unknown benefactor (Nick Mason perhaps?) who for now is happy to piss his money away on us.

As long as whoever it is happy to keep doing so we will be fine but if they stop (just like Eddie did one day) then unless we find someone else to buy us, then it will be TOUGH SHEET for us once again!

Sluffy wrote:A football club is a business and it employs people who need to be paid each month.

Players wages alone often total MORE than the club gets in, in income during the whole year!

Going by the last accounts filed. wages ate up £95 of every £100 BWFC made!

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So whatever front the club puts forward the simple truth is that BWFC is losing money and only sustainable by someone, somewhere putting their hand in their pocket and throwing their money away, in order to keep us going for now.

I personally can't see what the plan is to turn a profit and get some of that money back, to whoever it is who has given it to the club.

I can only assume for now that whoever is throwing the money at the club is rich enough not to want it back.

There is an exiting debt of £5.5 owed to PBP and FV have just put themselves in hock for the £4.5m Bond - which needs to be paid back in 5 years time.

I've no idea at this stage how they can possibly do that, other than tale another loan (or bond") out.

So in short, the ST sales, ground receipts, shirt sales, etc, goes straight on the players wages, everything else, heating, lighting, maintenance etc, etc, etc, is paid for out of someone's private  pocket.

And for this season, ground improvements and transfer budget has been funded by the fans who bought the bonds.

There was no more money to strengthen the team, the bit that's left from the bond (circa £200k or so) is probably set aside for the January transfer window.

Bob and I keep on telling you all that club is not financially self sustainable, has a debt mountain of around £10m that it can't pay off and basically only keeping going by some unknown benefactor (Nick Mason perhaps?) who for now is happy to piss his money away on us.

As long as whoever it is happy to keep doing so we will be fine but if they stop (just like Eddie did one day) then unless we find someone else to buy us, then it will be TOUGH SHEET for us once again!

Sluffy the same is true of pretty much every football club, at least outside the PL and that’s why it’s so important to at least make our way to the Championship where income is higher. Our owners and investors have known the financial situation from the beginning so won’t be surprised by any of what you say but they will also know that to reach the Championship requires investment, speculate to accumulate and I believe that’s how they’re thinking. 

Nobody wants them to bury the club in debt but we get two windows to build a squad capable of success. FV have stated their intention of automatic promotion this season and the fans have responded by backing them at every opportunity but for me this is an opportunity missed as we failed to strengthen critical areas which we know are weaknesses, not just this season but since IE came in. 

Yes we’ve brought in players this window but we’ve also lost players like Aimson, Trafford, Bradley, John, Lee, Sadlier and Williams so it’s not a one way street. Teams are constantly changing and from what I’ve seen so far I’m not sure the incomers have improved at all over those who’ve left.

Whitesince63 wrote:Sluffy,you say you doubt we have the finance to purchase JCH and you may well be right but it seems so far that our owners either don’t have money to put into the club or they just don’t want to. As well as the Bond money they also have better than average ST sales and some big gates I would have expected a morale boosting window but another two players out and zero in despite knowing we need reinforcements in several areas. I do hope we’re good enough to compete but I’m beginning to have my doubts.

I very much doubt that our owners 'want' to put more money into the club. If they did they wouldn't have been scratching around to find anybody else that would with the doubtful promise of unaffordable interest rates.

I also don't see the squad as being the equal of last season's but we will probably know better after ten games who the most likely candidates for promotion are this time around.

Ken the Unmentionable did manage to get the club back into the Championship at the first attempt and, against all the odds, kept them there for another season but it couldn't last without new money.

Whitesince63 wrote: Sluffy the same is true of pretty much every football club, at least outside the PL and that’s why it’s so important to at least make our way to the Championship where income is higher. Our owners and investors have known the financial situation from the beginning so won’t be surprised by any of what you say but they will also know that to reach the Championship requires investment, speculate to accumulate and I believe that’s how they’re thinking. 

Nobody wants them to bury the club in debt but we get two windows to build a squad capable of success. FV have stated their intention of automatic promotion this season and the fans have responded by backing them at every opportunity but for me this is an opportunity missed as we failed to strengthen critical areas which we know are weaknesses, not just this season but since IE came in. 

Yes we’ve brought in players this window but we’ve also lost players like Aimson, Trafford, Bradley, John, Lee, Sadlier and Williams so it’s not a one way street. Teams are constantly changing and from what I’ve seen so far I’m not sure the incomers have improved at all over those who’ve left.

The Championship riches are simply mythical, yes, you do get something like £6m more in funding from the EFL being in the division higher but the step up in costs (namely players wages) soon devours that amount and more.

The target set by FV is more likely that they believe by positioning BWFC in the Championship will enable a better chance to sell the club on.

Fwiw the accounts showed that up to the end of June 2022 (so not taking into account the whole of last season) that the owners (those who have spent their own money to buy the shares in FV) have LOST £22,414,011 which have been used to cover the accrued trading losses of FV since they took ownership of the club. (see Capital and Reserves - Profit and Loss Reserves page 11).

The club will have traded at a loss for last season, so no doubt the owners have now lost north of £25m between them - probably why they came up with the idea of a bond from the fans to minimise their accruing losses for the coming season, which will no doubt show the club trading at a loss once again.

Maybe the owners had set themselves a stop loss limit of £25m - meaning they were prepared to risk losing £25m and no more - I don't know, just me throwing out a thought.

It's not a question of 'burying the club in debt' as you say, the club IS already buried in debt already - in that the owners are circa £25m down and the club still owes a further £10m to PBP and the bond holders - AND the business is still trading at a loss and accruing further debts!

On the plus side though, the bills still seem to be being paid and we are apparently knocking back offers for players, so it does seem that whoever really is the benevolent funder of FV is still happy to piss away his millions on us (at least for now!) but that doesn't seem to provide this season for a transfer budget which has basically been funded by the fans and all spent bar about £200k (presumably for the January window?).

That's the reality of where we are.

Sorry Sluffy but you need to look at the Group Balance Sheet to see the fuller picture.
The Group losses show at around £9million although in reality they are more than that because of accounting 'quirks'.

I'll spare Nutters the details. They have been mentioned before but are not that easy to explain or follow if you're not used to reading financial statements.

In football terms though we’re talking peanuts if a serious investor wanted to take over the club and I do believe you Sluffy that FV’s intention is to get to the Championship to either sell on to a wealthier owner or to involve a more affluent investor, although we don’t really know how affluent the current investors might really be. Clearly the clubs hope is to buy and sell on players to increase revenue and I’m sure that’s what IE’s been tasked with but it’s not easy as we know, especially if you’re looking for promotions as well. I just think that when you look at all the players who have left this window plus the injuries to Johnson, Rico and Coleman we missed an opportunity yesterday to strengthen a squad which is now smaller than last year. That means less cover for key areas and that’s without the probability of further injuries, suspensions or loss of form. It’s great having fancy infrastructure and big TV’s but what we really need until we’re back in the Championship is a winning team on the field and to put all your resources into that first.

With respect I don't think you are understanding reality 63.

We haven't missed an opportunity to strengthen if we hadn't the powers to do so.

I can't score the winning goal against Manchester United if I'm not in the team any more than I can't buy JCH from Peterborough (or any other player come to that) if I haven't got the money to do so.

FV have simply not got any money to spend on transfers this summer and that's why they raised what budget they had, through the fans buying the bond!

AND even then they prioritised the work on the training ground and the IT improvements at the stadium ahead of transfers because any transfer money war chest came from whatever surplus was left over AFTER the work on the training ground and IT at the stadium were fully funded FIRST!

The owners seemed to have already reached their limit of investing further in the club right now and that's why they issued the bond to fund these things instead.

PS - Thanks Bob - the point still stands though, namely the investors have so far in total, made a loss.

Its a matter of degree, Sluffy. FV are limiting their overspending to amounts that, so far and one way or another, they have been able to fund but I do think that they are going to have to find new owners with bigger spending powers to sustain the club in the longer term.

Eddie's search for the exit route went on for years and cost him a fortune if it didn't cost him (and Sue's) well-earned retirement years in the end.


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When I said 'investing' above, maybe I used the wrong word, what I meant was that (for this summer at least) they haven't 'improved' the club from their own pocket, they haven't 'added' players by funding transfers, they haven't 'developed' facilities such as a new training pitch and a new IT system at the stadium - they are though putting in their money to sustain the club still on a day to day basis.

Apologies if I'd inadvertently mislead anyone.

And yes, stress kills, I think that's why I've sort of developed over the years my mechanism of pragmatism and humour. I've not done it intentionally, I just rationalise that if shit has happened - and it does - I can't change that, I have to go from where I am, and at the end of the day it's usually about losing money or a loved one.

Money can always be replaced (or lost forever) and love may be eternal but flesh and blood is not.

(I mean if you get a bill for thousands for say your car, you can earn it back eventually, if you've put your life savings on the Bolton Bond and they don't pay out at the end of it, then it's gone and you just have to live with it).

And if you can laugh at your lowest points, then you can and will fight on.

It seems to work for me.

I’m hearing Jerome will take up a coaching role in January once we bring in a striker. Jake Young is a top target to replace him

Boggersbelief wrote:I’m hearing Jerome will take up a coaching role in January once we bring in a striker.

Coaching what?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Coaching what?

That’s harsh, Natasha. He was once a premier league striker

He did very well when he came on against Stevenage. 

Booked and gave away a pen within 5 minutes. 

He must have a had a few bob on. 

Probably not a good idea with Evatt near by. 

He’s always been rubbish Jerome. Blessing Kaku was better.

For information more than anything else...

Boggersbelief wrote:Jake Young is a top target to replace him

Been great this season at Swindon, but although he scored a few goals beforehand, he's hardly been prolific and yet after Swindon loan Bradford will want top dollar for flavour of the month, so if true, a bit of a gamble I'd have thought.

wanderlust wrote:
Been great this season at Swindon, but although he scored a few goals beforehand, he's hardly been prolific and yet after Swindon loan Bradford will want top dollar for flavour of the month, so if true, a bit of a gamble I'd have thought.

Frankly Lusty with Vic, Bod, Dion and Dan, I’d be inclined to give young Carty a try when he’s back from Ireland rather than signing yet another unknown quantity. As far as Jerome taking on a coaching role, would that possibly be with us and principally why Evatt signed him? He’s clearly passed on a lot already with all the goals we’re banging in!! Oh then again? 🥴

Well tomorrow is January - have we been linked with anyone, rumors?  I have not seen a thing anywhere.

terenceanne wrote:Well tomorrow is January - have we been linked with anyone, rumors?  I have not seen a thing anywhere.

Not a word TA and I don’t think there’s even any consensus on which positions we actually need. Personally I’d go with what we’ve got as long as we can hold onto the likes of Dion, George and Rico. There are no glaring weaknesses even allowing for what we have up front so it may be better relying on the players already here and saving our powder for next year if we get promoted.

My thoughts from a couple of weeks ago...

Sluffy wrote:It all depends on how much (if any) transfer budget we have AND how much FV would want to push the boat out to get promoted this season?

I assume that thought would be given to getting replacements for our long-term injury's (Johnston and Nlundulu) and players who will be off in January to play in the Africa Cup and the Australian version.

I would suggest our biggest problem is a lack of a partner for Charles up front - the fact the Bodvarsson now seems to be back in favour (and he seemed to be on his way out at the end of last season!) indicates to me that Adeboyejo, Jerome and the now injured Nlundulu are not thought not to be up to the task and from what little I've seen of them - I would agree!

The biggest 'in-game' problem we have seems obvious to all of us in that we can't deal with teams that 'bully' us.

We seem to rely on Thomason to be our 'enforcer' but up to now he always seems to be perpetually one booking away to being sent off!

The left wingback position never has seemed to be completely nailed down either and will become even more problematical if Iredale is called up for Australia.

That's my thinking on the matter anyway - a proven goal scorer, a 'clever' defensive midfield enforcer and cover at least for the left wingback position.

Can't see it happening though.

Since then we have lost two players to the Africa/Asia Cups and given Morley a 3 year contract.

I think we will sign some players simply to have some cover for squad depth if nothing else.

The transfer budget (if any?) is obviously going to be a factor, as well as what division we will be playing in next season - no point in giving out 18 months contracts or longer if they aren't able to contribute at Championship level.

I also can't see much point in getting loans from big clubs for their younger players, unless they can step into the side now and contribute to it.

I'd probably look to see which experience and proven players PL and Championship clubs have in their squads that aren't getting game time and who could do a job for us now and in the Championship next season if we get promoted.

We could sign them on loan for this season and maybe buy them next season if promoted.

That's my thinking anyway.

Jones and Gomez will only be away for a couple of months and from what I can see we have ample players capable of filling in for them so signing replacements, even temporary ones, doesn’t seem to me to be very cost effective. Clubs don’t tend to let their better players leave in January anyway unless there’s a big financial inducement and I don’t see us having the money to do that so personally I expect us to be trying to fight off approaches than making them this January.