RIP - Phil Gartside

Sammy Lee's introduction of zonal marking was a disaster, given the squad we had.....

Sam pays tribute to PG

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Bwfc1958 wrote:

Michael Bolton wrote:Very sad news. Obviously he had a lot of critics for many decisions and how the club ended up so massively in debt but I always thought of him in terms of the good times - sat with Big Sam in the stands in those great days - like when winning 5-0 at Leicester.
His managerial appointments were IMO almost always excellent but for example Coyle and Freedman who appeared to be the best Young managers out there turned out to be duds. Never agreed with the appointments of Mugson or Lee though.
But it is very sad, Gartside wasn't an old man and he was in charge at Bolton during the best times the club has ever had.
RIP Phil Gartside.

It's difficult to say this without looking like a bit of a dick in the circumstances, but the highlighted bit of your post makes no sense. You said his managerial appointments were almost always excellent and then went on to rubbish every single appointment he ever made, bar Allardyce. If you include Lennon as another dud, that would give him a 16% success rate at picking managers. In his defence though, I don't think many people disagreed with the Lennon appointment at the time it was made.

I can see where you are coming from and I agree 100% that only Allardyce was a success, but Owen Coyle was the hottest young manager out there when at Burnley and he appeared to be a brilliant appointment. I remember writing to Gartside saying what a great appointment, I didn't think he would turn out to be a total dud.
Same with Dougie Freedman, again the stand out young manager out there with Palace, I thought he was a great appointment. Again with Lennon a great appointment. I didn't agree with Sammy Lee's appointment BUT Sammy Lee was about the highest rated number 2 in the country at the time, he had huge amounts of experience in coaching, I can see why he appointed Lee.
Mugson was the only bad appointment in my opinion but again he kept us up twice. I don't think Mugson was as bad as people thought but his face didn't fit.
The worst footballing decision IMO that Gartside made was keeping faith with Coyle for so long. we went about 23 games without winning and getting hammered like 6-0 at home week in week out, Coyle had to go but Gartside couldn't see how inept Coyle was.

But away from football it is terribly sad that Phil Gartside lost his life at 63. It is kind of ironic that his life ended at the same time Bolton Wanderers as a club is on the brink of ending too.

Michael Bolton wrote:

Bwfc1958 wrote:

Michael Bolton wrote:Very sad news. Obviously he had a lot of critics for many decisions and how the club ended up so massively in debt but I always thought of him in terms of the good times - sat with Big Sam in the stands in those great days - like when winning 5-0 at Leicester.
His managerial appointments were IMO almost always excellent but for example Coyle and Freedman who appeared to be the best Young managers out there turned out to be duds. Never agreed with the appointments of Mugson or Lee though.
But it is very sad, Gartside wasn't an old man and he was in charge at Bolton during the best times the club has ever had.
RIP Phil Gartside.

It's difficult to say this without looking like a bit of a dick in the circumstances, but the highlighted bit of your post makes no sense. You said his managerial appointments were almost always excellent and then went on to rubbish every single appointment he ever made, bar Allardyce. If you include Lennon as another dud, that would give him a 16% success rate at picking managers. In his defence though, I don't think many people disagreed with the Lennon appointment at the time it was made.

I can see where you are coming from and I agree 100% that only Allardyce was a success, but Owen Coyle was the hottest young manager out there when at Burnley and he appeared to be a brilliant appointment. I remember writing to Gartside saying what a great appointment, I didn't think he would turn out to be a total dud.
Same with Dougie Freedman, again the stand out young manager out there with Palace, I thought he was a great appointment. Again with Lennon a great appointment. I didn't agree with Sammy Lee's appointment BUT Sammy Lee was about the highest rated number 2 in the country at the time, he had huge amounts of experience in coaching, I can see why he appointed Lee.
Mugson was the only bad appointment in my opinion but again he kept us up twice. I don't think Mugson was as bad as people thought but his face didn't fit.
The worst footballing decision IMO that Gartside made was keeping faith with Coyle for so long. we went about 23 games without winning and getting hammered like 6-0 at home week in week out, Coyle had to go but Gartside couldn't see how inept Coyle was.

But away from football it is terribly sad that Phil Gartside lost his life at 63. It is kind of ironic that his life ended at the same time Bolton Wanderers as a club is on the brink of ending too.

Well said Mich.

The trouble is, people expect chairmen to be able to pick out a good manager, in the same way they expect managers to be able to spot a good player.

But it's completely different. Nobody without a crystal ball really knows how good any one manager is gonna be. You can't blame Gartside for not seeing that Coyle would do the club more harm than good. Equally you can only give him so much credit for what pulling Allardyce out of the hat achieved.

One thing you have to give Gartside is he was pretty consistent in terms of timing. He always gave managers time, which in our case was more of a curse than a blessing, but certain other clubs could probably benefit from an approach more like that.

I agree with Doff. At the end of the day you don't know how well a manager is gonna do. Coyle did well with Burnley and we snapped hi up. Freeman was doing well with Palace and we managed to snap him up. And I still believe Lennon is a coup for our club. Even though me might have been sold a dud.

RIP ... Phil Gartside

Been thinking how hard it must be for his family.

doffcocker wrote:The trouble is, people expect chairmen to be able to pick out a good manager, in the same way they expect managers to be able to spot a good player.

But it's completely different. Nobody without a crystal ball really knows how good any one manager is gonna be. You can't blame Gartside for not seeing that Coyle would do the club more harm than good. Equally you can only give him so much credit for what pulling Allardyce out of the hat achieved.

One thing you have to give Gartside is he was pretty consistent in terms of timing. He always gave managers time, which in our case was more of a curse than a blessing, but certain other clubs could probably benefit from an approach more like that.

I agree with most of what you say. However, I still disagree with going after a manager who has already got a job. Unless you are Man Utd, I don't think it works. Personally would rather treat the managers job like normal jobs and let those who want the job apply.



Megson we went to Leicester and asked him to come, even he admits he didn't want to leave Leicester and only came for the money. That's why Souness was pulled out as it was a done deal.

From what I have read from newspapers Coyle didn't apply for the job either, we asked permission to talk to him and the same goes with Freedman.

Lennon and Allardyce are the only ones that applied for the job in recent times - Allardyce having left Notts County albeit without telling the chairman face to face.

Personally think that has been a mistake. Some on here disagree with me I know, but, that's how I feel. Don't think there are many other clubs, other than the big ones who steal other clubs managers.

I think we would have been better appointing out of work managers who have had a good track record. Nigel Pearson for instance is out of work and will be looking to get back into work. Do you think just because he had a bad time at  Hull and Southampton that he has suddenly turned crap? Ridiculous. Yet there are people on here who think every out of work manager is some how rubbish - they were sacked for a reason - goes the argument.

When we did go to the job market we had 3 choices for manager, Lennon, Mackay and Hughton. I always thought Hughton was the best pick, but again on here everyone (it seemed at the time) wanted Lennon, who hadn't done anything outside Scottish football, whereas Mackay and Hughton had at least had a reasonable track record. Mackay backed up by multi millions, Hughton at least knowing some of the lows at Birmingham. In my view we picked the poorest of the candidates. We are though where we are.


If we sack Lennon in the summer, under new ownership, there will be a lot of fans on here clambering for Phil Brown. However the lad is on a new 3 year contract - so that's compensation to pay, then recently on talk sport he was saying how playing 50% youngsters would relegate a side (another downside to appointing Brownie) - in our present circumstances and budgets the way they are, do you think we can really afford Phil Brown? - I don't think so.

Our future, if we are going to get out of this mess is surely bringing youngsters through and talent spotting those from the non leagues. We will need a manager and a good back room staff to do this. Whether Lennon can do this I'm not so sure, but one thing I am sure is our scouting has got to improve 1000%. The days of multimillion pound transfers and paying high wages are over.

I'm not sure our fans have woken up to this

FullofSprite wrote:

doffcocker wrote:The trouble is, people expect chairmen to be able to pick out a good manager, in the same way they expect managers to be able to spot a good player.

But it's completely different. Nobody without a crystal ball really knows how good any one manager is gonna be. You can't blame Gartside for not seeing that Coyle would do the club more harm than good. Equally you can only give him so much credit for what pulling Allardyce out of the hat achieved.

One thing you have to give Gartside is he was pretty consistent in terms of timing. He always gave managers time, which in our case was more of a curse than a blessing, but certain other clubs could probably benefit from an approach more like that.

I agree with most of what you say. However, I still disagree with going after a manager who has already got a job. Unless you are Man Utd, I don't think it works. Personally would rather treat the managers job like normal jobs and let those who want the job apply.



Megson we went to Leicester and asked him to come, even he admits he didn't want to leave Leicester and only came for the money. That's why Souness was pulled out as it was a done deal.

From what I have read from newspapers Coyle didn't apply for the job either, we asked permission to talk to him and the same goes with Freedman.

Lennon and Allardyce are the only ones that applied for the job in recent times - Allardyce having left Notts County albeit without telling the chairman face to face.

Personally think that has been a mistake. Some on here disagree with me I know, but, that's how I feel. Don't think there are many other clubs, other than the big ones who steal other clubs managers.

I think we would have been better appointing out of work managers who have had a good track record. Nigel Pearson for instance is out of work and will be looking to get back into work. Do you think just because he had a bad time at  Hull and Southampton that he has suddenly turned crap? Ridiculous. Yet there are people on here who think every out of work manager is some how rubbish - they were sacked for a reason - goes the argument.

When we did go to the job market we had 3 choices for manager, Lennon, Mackay and Hughton. I always thought Hughton was the best pick, but again on here everyone (it seemed at the time) wanted Lennon, who hadn't done anything outside Scottish football, whereas Mackay and Hughton had at least had a reasonable track record. Mackay backed up by multi millions, Hughton at least knowing some of the lows at Birmingham. In my view we picked the poorest of the candidates. We are though where we are.


If we sack Lennon in the summer, under new ownership, there will be a lot of fans on here clambering for Phil Brown. However the lad is on a new 3 year contract - so that's compensation to pay, then recently on talk sport he was saying how playing 50% youngsters would relegate a side (another downside to appointing Brownie) - in our present circumstances and budgets the way they are, do you think we can really afford Phil Brown? - I don't think so.

Our future, if we are going to get out of this mess is surely bringing youngsters through and talent spotting those from the non leagues. We will need a manager and a good back room staff to do this. Whether Lennon can do this I'm not so sure, but one thing I am sure is our scouting has got to improve 1000%. The days of multimillion pound transfers and paying high wages are over.

I'm not sure our fans have woken up to this

Agree with most of this .....however isn't the idea of being bought by an outfit with some financial clout the way to solve the above?  Will not the new owners have money to pump into the club and players and manager if so be desired..... if not then what's the purpose of all the take over Bull in the first place?

Tweet from Iles -

The funeral of #bwfc chairman Phil Gartside was held today in Cheshire. Close family and friends in attendance.


RIP.