FIFA, wrong or right?

whatsgoingon wrote:

rammywhite wrote:

Norpig wrote:we invented the game, tell FIFA to sod off 

The chinese
But they didn't invent the ancient game of futebal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35409594

Because its form the BBC it doesn't mean it's accurate. The rules for football as we know it were laid down in this country and therefore we are the originators and founders if the game as we understand it today.
I still say sod FIFA (lets call it FEXIT) and wear the poppy with pride.

xmiles wrote:Well somebody has to put the other side to this, so I will.

What is all the fuss about? Does it really matter? Putting the poppy on shirts just looks like a gimmick to me not a genuine attempt to respect the memory of those who died for their country.

It all seems to be part of the current desire to show we "care" by ostentatious displays of bogus emotion. Remember when Princess Di died? It's got a lot worse since then. Also why do people in the public eye feel the need to wear a poppy from late October onwards? Probably because they are scared of the abuse that they will receive if they don't.

I've not heard anyone say they will be victimized, or suffer any ill effects, if they don't wear a poppy. If people don't want to wear a poppy, so be it. However, this example is about a federation who do want to wear it. Surely the argument should be that they are being refused a legitimate request, based on a need for them, and the players, who want to showing respect for the fallen.
I really don't understand why nowadays, every single decision, in every walk of life has to be argued over, and worse, the minority voices are usually taken as the rule of thumb. No wonder we have so many problems in this country.

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Well somebody has to put the other side to this, so I will.

What is all the fuss about? Does it really matter? Putting the poppy on shirts just looks like a gimmick to me not a genuine attempt to respect the memory of those who died for their country.

It all seems to be part of the current desire to show we "care" by ostentatious displays of bogus emotion. Remember when Princess Di died? It's got a lot worse since then. Also why do people in the public eye feel the need to wear a poppy from late October onwards? Probably because they are scared of the abuse that they will receive if they don't.

I've not heard anyone say they will be victimized, or suffer any ill effects, if they don't wear a poppy. If people don't want to wear a poppy, so be it. However, this example is about a federation who do want to wear it. Surely the argument should be that they are being refused a legitimate request, based on a need for them, and the players, who want to showing respect for the fallen.
I really don't understand why nowadays, every single decision, in every walk of life has to be argued over, and worse, the minority voices are usually taken as the rule of thumb. No wonder we have so many problems in this country.

Glos nails it for me! 

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Well somebody has to put the other side to this, so I will.

What is all the fuss about? Does it really matter? Putting the poppy on shirts just looks like a gimmick to me not a genuine attempt to respect the memory of those who died for their country.

It all seems to be part of the current desire to show we "care" by ostentatious displays of bogus emotion. Remember when Princess Di died? It's got a lot worse since then. Also why do people in the public eye feel the need to wear a poppy from late October onwards? Probably because they are scared of the abuse that they will receive if they don't.

I've not heard anyone say they will be victimized, or suffer any ill effects, if they don't wear a poppy.

Plenty of examples of abuse here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi5jInn54nQAhULK8AKHfSqAJIQFggxMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fmagazine-34720464&usg=AFQjCNFW50dYyp5tEeDzUMztrevchATdaQ&sig2=wgdTMszFflyQLxVKLvhwTg

i remember a news reader getting a lot of flak last year for not wearing a poppy, can't remember her name but she is on ITV news i think?

It does seem to be an unwritten rule that if you are in the public eye you have to wear one

The poppy is merely a symbol of respect, if there is an issue with FIFA about it being integrated into the kit (you would have thought FIFA had bigger things to worry about) then show respect in another way.
Hold a minutes silence before the game or the last post over the tannoy, the poppy isn't the only way to show respect, and then make a point of all the players wearing one as they leave the stadium and publicise the pictures.
This has all the hallmarks of using the symbol as part of a political pissing contest and that shows disrespect not respect.

Norpig wrote:i remember a news reader getting a lot of flak last year for not wearing a poppy, can't remember her name but she is on ITV news i think?

Charlene White, it's in Xmiles link above.

whatsgoingon wrote:The poppy is merely a symbol of respect, if there is an issue with FIFA about it being integrated into the kit (you would have thought FIFA had bigger things to worry about) then show respect in another way.
Hold a minutes silence before the game or the last post over the tannoy, the poppy isn't the only way to show respect, and then make a point of all the players wearing one as they leave the stadium and publicise the pictures.
This has all the hallmarks of using the symbol as part of a political pissing contest and that shows disrespect not respect.

whatsgoingon wrote:The poppy is merely a symbol of respect, if there is an issue with FIFA about it being integrated into the kit (you would have thought FIFA had bigger things to worry about) then show respect in another way.
Hold a minutes silence before the game or the last post over the tannoy, the poppy isn't the only way to show respect, and then make a point of all the players wearing one as they leave the stadium and publicise the pictures.
This has all the hallmarks of using the symbol as part of a political pissing contest and that shows disrespect not respect.

Best post you've ever made.

What they said.

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Well somebody has to put the other side to this, so I will.

What is all the fuss about? Does it really matter? Putting the poppy on shirts just looks like a gimmick to me not a genuine attempt to respect the memory of those who died for their country.

It all seems to be part of the current desire to show we "care" by ostentatious displays of bogus emotion. Remember when Princess Di died? It's got a lot worse since then. Also why do people in the public eye feel the need to wear a poppy from late October onwards? Probably because they are scared of the abuse that they will receive if they don't.

I've not heard anyone say they will be victimized, or suffer any ill effects, if they don't wear a poppy.

Plenty of examples of abuse here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi5jInn54nQAhULK8AKHfSqAJIQFggxMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fmagazine-34720464&usg=AFQjCNFW50dYyp5tEeDzUMztrevchATdaQ&sig2=wgdTMszFflyQLxVKLvhwTg

Wow ! hardly an over-the-top example of persecution. Not abuse, just personal opinions, to which both sides are entitled.

whatsgoingon wrote:The poppy is merely a symbol of respect

To the British, yes it is.
I think that the crux of the issue is what FIFA think it represents.
It's conceivable that to outsiders it represents something else - something that is politically sensitive to e.g. the countries our forces have fought against or those we have  suppressed. Most countries don't get involved in anywhere near as many conflicts as we do so their armed forces aren't venerated in society or as linked to our values as ours our. Whatever the reasoning, it seems clear that the FIFA officials don't understand it in the same way as us Brits and that the FA haven't communicated the cultural context and strength of feeling adequately.
But as has been pointed out - it's their party and their rules.
We should accept other people's rules if we are going to play their game - it's crass to try to change them to suit our own particular needs as the Americans demonstrated when they hosted the World Cup and allegedly tried to get the rules of football changed to suit their media schedules and need for a result. Widening the goals was mentioned.
And if FIFA have already compromised by offering the wearing of commemorative armbands the FA should show a bit of class and accept.

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Well somebody has to put the other side to this, so I will.

What is all the fuss about? Does it really matter? Putting the poppy on shirts just looks like a gimmick to me not a genuine attempt to respect the memory of those who died for their country.

It all seems to be part of the current desire to show we "care" by ostentatious displays of bogus emotion. Remember when Princess Di died? It's got a lot worse since then. Also why do people in the public eye feel the need to wear a poppy from late October onwards? Probably because they are scared of the abuse that they will receive if they don't.

I've not heard anyone say they will be victimized, or suffer any ill effects, if they don't wear a poppy.

Plenty of examples of abuse here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi5jInn54nQAhULK8AKHfSqAJIQFggxMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fmagazine-34720464&usg=AFQjCNFW50dYyp5tEeDzUMztrevchATdaQ&sig2=wgdTMszFflyQLxVKLvhwTg

Wow ! hardly an over-the-top example of persecution. Not abuse, just personal opinions, to which both sides are entitled.

Unfortunately it is not just personal opinions. Far too often it is actual abuse - see for example what Charlene White experienced:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiapoDloYrQAhWB0hoKHa-uAzwQFghWMAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2505791%2FCharlene-White-ITV-news-suffered-racist-abuse-wearing-Remembrance-Day-poppy.html&usg=AFQjCNEjeGk3Mzfi3oTIWLubLp_R3ivBsw&sig2=CEpTG4yniyzoKwCjifml8w

Now Mrs. May and the government have chimed up, calling FIFA's ruling "utterly outrageous".

"The Scottish Football Association (SFA) said on Tuesday that Fifa had turned down a request from England and Scotland for players to wear armbands in next Friday's World Cup qualifier.
The two football associations hope to change Fifa's mind, and want to know what the potential punishments could be should they flout the rule.
Former Culture, Media and Sport Secretary John Whittingdale MP says the England team should wear poppies - even if a points deduction is possible.
Speaking to BBC Radio 5 live's Emma Barnett, he said: "For [Fifa] to try and brand the poppy as a political symbol shows a total misunderstanding"

okocha wrote:Now Mrs. May and the government have chimed up, calling FIFA's ruling "utterly outrageous".

"The Scottish Football Association (SFA) said on Tuesday that Fifa had turned down a request from England and Scotland for players to wear armbands in next Friday's World Cup qualifier.
The two football associations hope to change Fifa's mind, and want to know what the potential punishments could be should they flout the rule.
Former Culture, Media and Sport Secretary John Whittingdale MP says the England team should wear poppies - even if a points deduction is possible.
Speaking to BBC Radio 5 live's Emma Barnett, he said: "For [Fifa] to try and brand the poppy as a political symbol shows a total misunderstanding"

What a load of hogwash.

The Poppy is not a political symbol. It's a symbol of respect to remember the dead who gave their lives so the rest of us could sit here having this debate. We should cock a snook at FIFA and tell them to jog on.

Reebok Trotter wrote:The Poppy is not a political symbol. It's a symbol of respect to remember the dead who gave their lives so the rest of us could sit here having this debate. We should cock a snook at FIFA and tell them to jog on.

I wonder how big a bung it would take to get them to change their mind,

Reebok Trotter wrote:The Poppy is not a political symbol. It's a symbol of respect to remember the dead who gave their lives so the rest of us could sit here having this debate. We should cock a snook at FIFA and tell them to jog on.

The poppy is a symbol of respect but sticking it on a football shirt is not.

xmiles wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:The Poppy is not a political symbol. It's a symbol of respect to remember the dead who gave their lives so the rest of us could sit here having this debate. We should cock a snook at FIFA and tell them to jog on.

The poppy is a symbol of respect but sticking it on a football shirt is not.

We should have the right to wear our poppy with pride on any item of choosing that we like. Anyone who thinks otherwise can do one.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:The Poppy is not a political symbol. It's a symbol of respect to remember the dead who gave their lives so the rest of us could sit here having this debate. We should cock a snook at FIFA and tell them to jog on.

The poppy is a symbol of respect but sticking it on a football shirt is not.

We should have the right to wear our poppy with pride on any item of choosing that we like. Anyone who thinks otherwise can do one.

You are losing the plot RT. We wear poppies to show respect. Sticking them on football shirts is just a gimmick. Do you think sticking a poppy on any and every thing genuinely shows respect? How about sticking a poppy on a supermarket plastic bag, or a t-shirt, or pants or a condom? Where do you draw the line?