FIFA, wrong or right?

Why should footballers be denied the right to show their respect and pride for the fallen? Just because a morally corrupt organisation says so? 
We owe it to the fallen who paid the ultimate sacrifice to stand firm on this one. Football is part of our heritage and footballers also lost their lives during the two wold wars long before FIFA came along.
As I see it, it's a matter of principle. By wearing the poppy we stand up for and  speak for those who are no longer here to speak for themselves.

Nobody's denying anybody anything.

They could have a ceremony before the game where they lay a wreath if this really was just about commemorating the fallen.

But it's not.

It's Little Englander syndrome at its worst - Demanding things and spitting our collective dummy out when Johnny Foreigner doesn't immediately fall in line and accede to whatever demands are made.

It's frankly embarrassing if you ask me.

And it's no wonder the rest of the world hate us because we still think we're soooo superior to everybody else and it manifests with shit like this.

We're not special, we're not better than anybody else and if we want to play in their competition, we need to have the good grace to accept their rules.

People moan about immigrants coming over here and refusing to integrate and accept our rules.

How the fuck is this any different?

It's their competition and their rules and they're the same for everybody.

If we're too arrogant to accept that, they're well within their rights to tell us to fuck off and I'm honestly amazed that more people apparently can't see it.

Bread2.0 wrote:Nobody's denying anybody anything.

They could have a ceremony before the game where they lay a wreath if this really was just about commemorating the fallen.

But it's not.

It's Little Englander syndrome at its worst - Demanding things and spitting our collective dummy out when Johnny Foreigner doesn't immediately fall in line and accede to whatever demands are made.

It's frankly embarrassing if you ask me.

And it's no wonder the rest of the world hate us because we still think we're soooo superior to everybody else and it manifests with shit like this.

We're not special, we're not better than anybody else and if we want to play in their competition, we need to have the good grace to accept their rules.

People moan about immigrants coming over here and refusing to integrate and accept our rules.

How the fuck is this any different?

It's their competition and their rules and they're the same for everybody.

If we're too arrogant to accept that, they're well within their rights to tell us to fuck off and I'm honestly amazed that more people apparently can't see it.

Nobody is forcing anyone to wear a poppy. That's because we live in a free country where people can go about their business without fear of persecution because of their colour, creed or religion. It took years for us, as a nation, to reach this point. Therefore, anyone who wishes to wear a poppy, regardless of who they are, should be allowed to do so. I believe the correct term is Freedom of expression.

Let the overpaid ponces donate a weeks wages to The Royal British Legion. That would impress me more than the lip service they pay when sporting the poppy.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

Bread2.0 wrote:Nobody's denying anybody anything.

They could have a ceremony before the game where they lay a wreath if this really was just about commemorating the fallen.

But it's not.

It's Little Englander syndrome at its worst - Demanding things and spitting our collective dummy out when Johnny Foreigner doesn't immediately fall in line and accede to whatever demands are made.

It's frankly embarrassing if you ask me.

And it's no wonder the rest of the world hate us because we still think we're soooo superior to everybody else and it manifests with shit like this.

We're not special, we're not better than anybody else and if we want to play in their competition, we need to have the good grace to accept their rules.

People moan about immigrants coming over here and refusing to integrate and accept our rules.

How the fuck is this any different?

It's their competition and their rules and they're the same for everybody.

If we're too arrogant to accept that, they're well within their rights to tell us to fuck off and I'm honestly amazed that more people apparently can't see it.

Nobody is forcing anyone to wear a poppy. That's because we live in a free country where people can go about their business without fear of persecution because of their colour, creed or religion. It took years for us, as a nation, to reach this point. Therefore, anyone who wishes to wear a poppy, regardless of who they are, should be allowed to do so. I believe the correct term is Freedom of expression.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

Bread2.0 wrote:Nobody's denying anybody anything.

Seriously? You accuse me of missing the point but your sentence above is incorrect. Clearly FIFA are denying the right of England and Scottish footballers to be allowed to wear the poppy.

Since when were they appointed moral arbiters for the free world?

The point is that the poppy is a political symbol - that's not up for debate I'm afraid everybody interprets symbols in their own way and whilst to us it's a mark of respect to fallen service men, to others it's a show of support to the British army and their activities. 

Whilst I wear a poppy in honour of the sacrifice each individual service man has made, the fact of the matter is that not every cause the army has fought  (led by politicians) has always been the right one. As such FIFA's ruling on political statements is correct. So the FA should instead make the gesture of donating to the British legion or a similarly just cause.

Reebok Trotter wrote:Why should footballers be denied the right to show their respect and pride for the fallen?

Nobody is denying them their right to show their respect. There are lots of ways for them to do so as others have already suggested. This is just a pointless gimmick seized upon by little Englanders like May to stir up bogus outrage. It is not a genuine show of respect.

Several people here make reference to FIFA being 'their' organisation. It's not- it's ours as well as we are members of FIFA. So we have a legitimate  voice in this matter and its being dismissed at FIFA headquarters without adequate reasoning why.
It doesn't seem to matter anymore anyway as  the FAs of both countries have decided to wear black armbands with poppies on  and have invited FIFA to 'punish' them for doing so.
Good for them!!

rammywhite wrote:Several people here make reference to FIFA being 'their' organisation. It's not- it's ours as well as we are members of FIFA. So we have a legitimate  voice in this matter and its being dismissed at FIFA headquarters without adequate reasoning why.

Before I (thankfully) managed to pay off the mortgage, I was a member of The Brittania Building Society and subsequently after they merged with the Co-Op Bank, I gained voting rights with them too.

Does that mean I could've waltzed into my local Co-Op and demanded that they gave me half a dozen eggs for free, just because I like eggs?

I wish I'd known that at the time.

I would have enjoyed lording it over the non-member shoppers next to me in the queue, as they fumbled about with their money to pay for their eggs.

"Paying for your eggs there? Ha Haaa! Not me!", I would have said to them, "I'm a member, so I can make my own rules up and the Co-Op's got to accept them."

Bread2.0 wrote:

rammywhite wrote:Several people here make reference to FIFA being 'their' organisation. It's not- it's ours as well as we are members of FIFA. So we have a legitimate  voice in this matter and its being dismissed at FIFA headquarters without adequate reasoning why.

Before I (thankfully) managed to pay off the mortgage, I was a member of The Brittania Building Society and subsequently after they merged with the Co-Op Bank, I gained voting rights with them too.

Does that mean I could've waltzed into my local Co-Op and demanded that they gave me half a dozen eggs for free, just because I like eggs?

I wish I'd known that at the time.

I would have enjoyed lording it over the non-member shoppers next to me in the queue, as they fumbled about with their money to pay for their eggs.

"Paying for your eggs there? Ha Haaa! Not me!", I would have said to them, "I'm a member, so I can make my own rules up and the Co-Op's got to accept them."

I think you are deliberately missing the point. It got nothing to do with you as a customer. The English FA and the Scottish FA are members of FIFA in exactly the same way as every other national FA is a member- that means they have a legitimate voice to say what they should think should happen. If the request is rejected then the reasons for doing so must be legitimate. FIFA's reasons to refusing the request are based on a misconception of what the poppy represents in the  United Kingdom. Its FIFA who are being cloth eared- not the FAs .
Carry this to the extreme-  a national anthem is a political and nationalistic gesture- lets ban them next!!

I agree that as members our FA has a legitimate voice when it comes to setting general policy.

That's why they have an AGM where members can vote and determine policy through collective agreement.

One country - One vote.

However, that doesn't mean that member FA's can then unilaterally decide to pick and choose which rules they abide by.

Presumably, before the rule about not wearing political or religious motifs on playing kit was passed, it must have been put to a vote of the membership.

And then been ratified as part of the due process.

So to pop up now and start demanding that we get a special opt-out clause is both churlish and misguided.

And now the conspiracy theory bit.....

The government's coming under increasing pressure to demonstrate that we won't be dictated to by Europe in the forthcoming Brexit negotiations and this chance to fly the flag and tell Johnny Foreigner to fuck right off fits their preferred narrative.

Sadly, like the initial Brexit vote, too many people miss the subtle points which make all the difference in things like this, making it easy for unscrupulous politicians like May and her chums to use opportunities like this to whip up fervor which benefits them.

FIFA is a soft target at the moment and this is just political opportunism being disguised as something else.

And if we're serious about honouring the fallen, I find that not only distasteful but downright crass to boot.

FIFA allowed England to wear black armbands with a poppy on a couple of years ago so why are they saying no now?

Personally i don't see the poppy as a political symbol,no matter what people on here or in Government say. It's a way to show our thanks to the people who gave their lives fighting for their country and way of life

Bread2.0 wrote:I agree that as members our FA has a legitimate voice when it comes to setting general policy.

That's why they have an AGM where members can vote and determine policy through collective agreement.

One country - One vote.

However, that doesn't mean that member FA's can then unilaterally decide to pick and choose which rules they abide by.

Presumably, before the rule about not wearing political or religious motifs on playing kit was passed, it must have been put to a vote of the membership.

And then been ratified as part of the due process.

So to pop up now and start demanding that we get a special opt-out clause is both churlish and misguided.

And now the conspiracy theory bit.....

The government's coming under increasing pressure to demonstrate that we won't be dictated to by Europe in the forthcoming Brexit negotiations and this chance to fly the flag and tell Johnny Foreigner to fuck right off fits their preferred narrative.

Sadly, like the initial Brexit vote, too many people miss the subtle points which make all the difference in things like this, making it easy for unscrupulous politicians like May and her chums to use opportunities like this to whip up fervor which benefits them.

FIFA is a soft target at the moment and this is just political opportunism being disguised as something else.

And if we're serious about honouring the fallen, I find that not only distasteful but downright crass to boot.

This is exactly what Theresa May is doing here and I find it disgusting that she's using this as a platform to garner support from the sun newsreader types who look at what she's doing and say, "Look at Theresa May standing up for the will of the people, isn't she brilliant". 

What a load of bollocks. It's all political point scoring as usual and this time she's using the men and women who died in the wars to make herself look good. 

It's got fuck all to do with her and she stands to lose nothing if the teams go ahead and wear the poppies and nothing if they don't. It will be down to the football associations of each country to deal with the consequences but that doesn't matter too her as long as she's ingratiated herself with the folk who are outraged over nothing much. 

Banging on about how it's so outrageous and how they should get their own house in order is hypocritical at best. Expenses scandals, honours for donors and the like, benefits cuts, people having to survive on food banks, the fact that ex-servicemen and women have to rely on charities and poppy sales etc rather than being looked aftet by the very government that sent them out there to fight their political wars in the first place, that's what outrages me, so why don't you look a bit closer to home before scoring points off peoples emotions you horrible fucker!

Bwfc1958 wrote:

Bread2.0 wrote:I agree that as members our FA has a legitimate voice when it comes to setting general policy.

That's why they have an AGM where members can vote and determine policy through collective agreement.

One country - One vote.

However, that doesn't mean that member FA's can then unilaterally decide to pick and choose which rules they abide by.

Presumably, before the rule about not wearing political or religious motifs on playing kit was passed, it must have been put to a vote of the membership.

And then been ratified as part of the due process.

So to pop up now and start demanding that we get a special opt-out clause is both churlish and misguided.

And now the conspiracy theory bit.....

The government's coming under increasing pressure to demonstrate that we won't be dictated to by Europe in the forthcoming Brexit negotiations and this chance to fly the flag and tell Johnny Foreigner to fuck right off fits their preferred narrative.

Sadly, like the initial Brexit vote, too many people miss the subtle points which make all the difference in things like this, making it easy for unscrupulous politicians like May and her chums to use opportunities like this to whip up fervor which benefits them.

FIFA is a soft target at the moment and this is just political opportunism being disguised as something else.

And if we're serious about honouring the fallen, I find that not only distasteful but downright crass to boot.

This is exactly what Theresa May is doing here and I find it disgusting that she's using this as a platform to garner support from the sun newsreader types who look at what she's doing and say, "Look at Theresa May standing up for the will of the people, isn't she brilliant". 

What a load of bollocks. It's all political point scoring as usual and this time she's using the men and women who died in the wars to make herself look good. 

It's got fuck all to do with her and she stands to lose nothing if the teams go ahead and wear the poppies and nothing if they don't. It will be down to the football associations of each country to deal with the consequences but that doesn't matter too her as long as she's ingratiated herself with the folk who are outraged over nothing much. 

Banging on about how it's so outrageous and how they should get their own house in order is hypocritical at best. Expenses scandals, honours for donors and the like, benefits cuts, people having to survive on food banks, the fact that ex-servicemen and women have to rely on charities and poppy sales etc rather than being looked aftet by the very government that sent them out there to fight their political wars in the first place, that's what outrages me, so why don't you look a bit closer to home before scoring points off peoples emotions you horrible fucker!