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So much for parliamentary democracy

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181So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Tue Sep 24 2019, 21:56

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Some of the Brexiteers are more Mein Kampf than Camp Men. Very Happy

182So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Tue Sep 24 2019, 22:01

Angry Dad

Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
I like Camp Coffee

183So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Tue Sep 24 2019, 22:01

Angry Dad

Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
I like Camp Coffee

184So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Tue Sep 24 2019, 22:04

Guest


Guest
@gloswhite wrote:She just loves the limelight. Did anyone notice her when she entered the Supreme courts in the pissing rain. She had a flunky holding an umbrella for her, whilst he was getting soaked. Royalty indeed, (in her own mind).

If it’s just a stunt for attention why has she won twice?

185So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 08:26

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:She just loves the limelight. Did anyone notice her when she entered the Supreme courts in the pissing rain. She had a flunky holding an umbrella for her, whilst he was getting soaked. Royalty indeed, (in her own mind).

If it’s just a stunt for attention why has she won twice?
Why is she even involved?

186So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 09:55

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:She just loves the limelight. Did anyone notice her when she entered the Supreme courts in the pissing rain. She had a flunky holding an umbrella for her, whilst he was getting soaked. Royalty indeed, (in her own mind).

If it’s just a stunt for attention why has she won twice?
Why is she even involved?
It's a good thing that SOMEone is principled enough and determined enough to stand up for what is right despite death threats and vicious, uncouth vitriol.

187So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 10:10

Guest


Guest
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:She just loves the limelight. Did anyone notice her when she entered the Supreme courts in the pissing rain. She had a flunky holding an umbrella for her, whilst he was getting soaked. Royalty indeed, (in her own mind).

If it’s just a stunt for attention why has she won twice?
Why is she even involved?

Are the courts wrong is the question you need to answer.

Because unless you think they are she has every right to challenge the governments actions when they are unlawful - as we all do.

188So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 11:30

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@okocha wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:She just loves the limelight. Did anyone notice her when she entered the Supreme courts in the pissing rain. She had a flunky holding an umbrella for her, whilst he was getting soaked. Royalty indeed, (in her own mind).

If it’s just a stunt for attention why has she won twice?
Why is she even involved?
It's a good thing that SOMEone is principled enough and determined enough to stand up for what is right despite death threats and vicious, uncouth vitriol.
This is true, and I'm glad to see Boris is continuing to keep to his word to all those who voted to leave.

189So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 11:34

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:She just loves the limelight. Did anyone notice her when she entered the Supreme courts in the pissing rain. She had a flunky holding an umbrella for her, whilst he was getting soaked. Royalty indeed, (in her own mind).

If it’s just a stunt for attention why has she won twice?
Why is she even involved?

Are the courts wrong is the question you need to answer.

Because unless you think they are she has every right to challenge the governments actions when they are unlawful - as we all do.
Indeed. Lets hope she uses her millions to tackle cases where the ordinary citizen needs help. We know there's absolutely no chance of that, so maybe we should ask why she is choosing the high profile cases she goes for.

190So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 14:26

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote: I'm glad to see Boris is continuing to keep to his word to all those who voted to leave.
That's not true. We were promised an "easy to negotiate" trade deal similar to Norway and Switzerland - both of whom have deals with the EU.


And those promises were reiterated AFTER the referendum....




"Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards"


John Redwood

July 17 2016


"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"



Liam Fox

20 July 2017



So rather than keeping the promises made to Leave voters, Boris is doing everything he can to avoid keeping them in his relentless - and illegal - pursuit of leaving without a deal.


Some other promises to Leave voters that have already been broken:



  • "Trade talks would take place in parallel with divorce talks" (Davis caved in on Day 1)
  • "The UK does not need a transition period and would not be subject to EU rules or budgets during one" (We immediately started an initial 21 month transition - since extended - and have been subject to EU rules and budgets throughout)
  • "The transition serves merely to implement the final trade deal which would be agreed by Brexit Day" - you have got to be kidding!!!!
  • "The UK would owe the EU nothing after we leave in March 2019" (Government told the EU in November 2017 that we would honour our share of all commitments)
  • "A raft of new trade deals will be ready on the 29th March 2019" (Government has conceded that any new trade deals we negotiate with third party countries - where are they?  - cannot be implemented until AFTER December 2020)
  • "A hi-tech customs solution will make frictionless borders simple" (that's going well)
  • "Free movement will end on the 29th March 2019" LOL
  • "Britain will take back control of it's fisheries" (EU continues to have free access to British waters and has demanded that they will continue to have access as a condition of any deal struck with EU countries)




NB: Apologies for the italics but I can't get rid of 'em.

191So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 15:00

Guest


Guest
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:She just loves the limelight. Did anyone notice her when she entered the Supreme courts in the pissing rain. She had a flunky holding an umbrella for her, whilst he was getting soaked. Royalty indeed, (in her own mind).

If it’s just a stunt for attention why has she won twice?
Why is she even involved?

Are the courts wrong is the question you need to answer.

Because unless you think they are she has every right to challenge the governments actions when they are unlawful - as we all do.
Indeed. Lets hope she uses her millions to tackle cases where the ordinary citizen needs help. We know there's absolutely no chance of that, so maybe we should ask why she is choosing the high profile cases she goes for.

I mean clearly you have a personal issue with this woman you’ve never met.

But unless you’re trying to tell me that the courts were wrong twice then she’s fully justified in her actions. It’s not some spurious case she’s brought forward to get some limelight as you seen desperate to believe.

If you took facts over your own prejudice more often you’d hold very different views.

192So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 16:45

Angry Dad

Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
The court has no right interfearing, same with that Fuck Head Bercow.

193So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 21:31

Guest


Guest
@Angry Dad wrote:The court has no right interfearing, same with that Fuck Head Bercow.

The court have no right to apply the law.

What a stupid thing to say.

194So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Thu Sep 26 2019, 23:33

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Angry Dad wrote:The court has no right interfearing, same with that Fuck Head Bercow.

The British Parliament and the British Legal system should really just stand aside whilst a bunch of foreign businessmen and their puppet American-born Prime Minister take over Britain? Really?

We should be fighting them on the beaches.

195So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 27 2019, 10:20

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Bloody hell, all our prejudices are on show now. This really is getting too involved, with apparently none of us prepared to give much credence to others when they don't agree completely with our own views. A lot like our politicians really, who who condemn for the same responses.

TROY, do you realise how little credibility you have when you come up with comments like this; 
If you took facts over your own prejudice more often you’d hold very different views".
You obviously have me down as some sort of ill informed idiot, and pass your declarations down from on high, without the slightest thought as to whether you are correct in your assumptions. 
Take a step back and stop acting like a tit.

196So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 27 2019, 10:38

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:Bloody hell, all our prejudices are on show now. This really is getting too involved, with apparently none of us prepared to give much credence to others when they don't agree completely with our own views. A lot like our politicians really, who who condemn for the same responses.

TROY, do you realise how little credibility you have when you come up with comments like this; 
If you took facts over your own prejudice more often you’d hold very different views".
You obviously have me down as some sort of ill informed idiot, and pass your declarations down from on high, without the slightest thought as to whether you are correct in your assumptions. 
Take a step back and stop acting like a tit.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

197So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 27 2019, 14:28

Angry Dad

Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Angry Dad wrote:The court has no right interfearing, same with that Fuck Head Bercow.

The court have no right to apply the law.

What a stupid thing to say.
They are all remainers, they have no right to sabotage the referendum result, we all know what's going on i just hope boris finds a way round these treacherous cunts.

198So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 27 2019, 22:29

Guest


Guest
@gloswhite wrote:Bloody hell, all our prejudices are on show now. This really is getting too involved, with apparently none of us prepared to give much credence to others when they don't agree completely with our own views. A lot like our politicians really, who who condemn for the same responses.

TROY, do you realise how little credibility you have when you come up with comments like this; 
If you took facts over your own prejudice more often you’d hold very different views".
You obviously have me down as some sort of ill informed idiot, and pass your declarations down from on high, without the slightest thought as to whether you are correct in your assumptions. 
Take a step back and stop acting like a tit.

You’re desperate to drag this away from the point.

Do you think the courts have got it wrong twice? Because that is the only way you can justify the claim she’s doing this solely for attention.

199So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Fri Sep 27 2019, 22:32

Guest


Guest
@Angry Dad wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Angry Dad wrote:The court has no right interfearing, same with that Fuck Head Bercow.

The court have no right to apply the law.

What a stupid thing to say.
They are all remainers, they have no right to sabotage the referendum result, we all know what's going on i just hope boris finds a way round these treacherous cunts.

So the Supreme Court are corrupt?

200So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 03:04

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
There is no point in trying to have a rational discussion with Angry Dad or karly. They don’t seem capable of it.

201So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 11:36

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
@xmiles wrote:There is no point in trying to have a rational discussion with Angry Dad or karly. They don’t seem capable of it.
Nor is there any point trying to discuss anything you fervent remainers have locked in your brain. Lets be honest, we really are deadlocked on here.
In fairness, I believe, no matter how we try, that we are all so frustrated in our personal expectations, that we are often responding just for the sake of it, and not moving forward or backwards one iota. 
Were all sitting in the trenches, often hoping against hope, that all this nonsense will come to an end, but in our favour. It has now spread to personal abuse, both here and elsewhere, and usually groundless. Parliament and all politicians are behaving abominably, by making and changing laws as they go along, ganging up against the Executive, and even considering forming a temporary government in order to circumvent a problem that is very much a result of their own actions, whilst showing intransigence in accepting any opportunity to move forward. 
Its chaotic, and considering  MP's attitudes, rather disgraceful, and I personally feel that the damage being done will last much longer than the effects of Brexit.
I read an article that said the current crop of politicians are no longer fit for the job, and have rubbished any credibility or respect the public had for them, and we should now vote in a whole lot of new members, hopefully with a fresh approach and new ideas and practices. I have to agree with the sentiment.

202So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 11:50

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I've stopped commenting on this thread because, let's face it, we've made our marks in the sand, and we're not going to cross them.
We face each other like two warring armies, ready for the battle ahead. Whatever the outcome, the field will be left strewn with casualties, the saddest casualty of all being the respect we once had for the mother of all parliaments.

203So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 12:01

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:Bloody hell, all our prejudices are on show now. This really is getting too involved, with apparently none of us prepared to give much credence to others when they don't agree completely with our own views. A lot like our politicians really, who who condemn for the same responses.
It's not about "prejudices" Glos unless you apply that to the process by which we give greater creedence or significance to a range of particular facts over another set of facts.
In my case, I think the important facts are those relating to the power and influence of specific right wing global corporations meddling with governments and elections, in order to further their own interests.
And if you watch the Great Hack you will clearly see that organisations such as Steve Bannon and Robert Mercer's Cambridge Analytica who have a track record of working for said global corporates have done that in numerous countries and done it successfully by manipulating the electorate. In fact that they boasted about how they "fixed" elections in Australia, India, Kenya, Malta and Mexico as well as the USA and UK.

Which brings me to the second area of interest which is can an electorate be manipulated through psychographic targeting?
One of the hardest things for people to recognise - and more importantly, admit to themselves - is that they have had their opinion altered by external forces.
We all want to believe that we make our own minds up and any admission that we have been manipulated is generally viewed as an admission of weakness - so any organisation that sets out to manipulate a vote is on a winner because those they manipulate will be in total denial.

So at a basic level, why is the advertising industry one of the largest sectors in the world? Why would they spend billions and billions on trying to persuade people to buy, invest - or vote - if it didn't work?
The answer is simple - it does work, especially if they target the market, and all the scientific study and the day to day reality of their success backs that up.

When they take those basic principles to the next level by having more information about their target market then ever before in human history - and in the case of the 40 million+ British Facebook users right down to pictures of what they had for lunch, let alone what they like, dislike and are frightened of - they know exactly what buttons to press for what people to get a reaction.

So when you need a swing of just over a million votes to win a referendum and amongst the 40 million you know that 3 million of them have never voted previously and you know that another 7 million have previously expressed the view that they are frightened about increased immigration, you can get that extra million by targeting just 10 million of them with fake messages like "The EU is about to give 75 million Turks free access to the UK" - which they later withdrew after the seeds had been sown. And that was just one of the 300+ targeted messages sent to different segments of the Facebook community during the run up to the referendum.

As we speak, Cummings is running over 300 targeted messages on Facebook to try to shore up the backing for Boris and even though Facebook have closed down a few because they were downright lies, he can always put up more because as it stands, there is no penalty for lying on t'internet.

I wouldn't describe my genuine concern for this situation as a "prejudice" and as much as the next man I don't like the idea of being susceptible to being sold to but I do know I like Toblerones and if I walk past a shop which has them in the window and a big sign that says 3 for a quid I'll be in there like a shot.
And I'll be very pissed off if I go in to buy them and they say that offer only applies for customers who spend over £100.

204So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 12:46

Guest


Guest
Agreed nobody's budging, but it doesn't excuse making unfair allegations then refusing to back down when faced with the facts.

Glos - the answer to my question is clearly no, you don't think the courts got it wrong. So essentially you're discrediting someone, not because they're wrong (she was proved right on both counts) but because she holds a different position to your own.

To me, that's a worrying position to take from someone I consider entirely reasonable in most matters and (in my opinion) you should back down from it - because you're clearly not up for defending it.

205So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 14:22

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
T.R.O.Y wrote:Agreed nobody's budging, but it doesn't excuse making unfair allegations then refusing to back down when faced with the facts.

Glos - the answer to my question is clearly no, you don't think the courts got it wrong. So essentially you're discrediting someone, not because they're wrong (she was proved right on both counts) but because she holds a different position to your own.

To me, that's a worrying position to take from someone I consider entirely reasonable in most matters and (in my opinion) you should back down from it - because you're clearly not up for defending it.
I wasn't discrediting her for getting the court verdict in her favour, (not twice, only once). I just don't like her attitude and was curious as to her motives for only applying her legal team to high profile cases. If she was as concerned for the British public as she makes out, why haven't we seen more of her or her organisation ?
Its very kind of you to think I'm entirely reasonable in most matters, and I'd like to reciprocate, and say that I genuinely don't give a fuck for you or your condescending attitude. 
Lets not bother each other in the future, and keep our personal comments to ourselves, shall we ? I don't need to be annoyed on a daily basis by an obnoxious, self righteous, Mr. Perfect.

206So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 14:39

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@boltonbonce wrote:I've stopped commenting on this thread because, let's face it, we've made our marks in the sand, and we're not going to cross them.
We face each other like two warring armies, ready for the battle ahead. Whatever the outcome, the field will be left strewn with casualties, the saddest casualty of all being the respect we once had for the mother of all parliaments.
So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Unknow15

207So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 14:47

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
I only comment occasionally on this thread because yes we all know where we stand on this issue. However what I do find frustrating is the refusal or inability of brexiteers to offer any rational reason for voting leave.

Equally irritating is their refusal to understand that we live in a parliamentary democracy and what that means.

208So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 15:00

Guest


Guest
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Agreed nobody's budging, but it doesn't excuse making unfair allegations then refusing to back down when faced with the facts.

Glos - the answer to my question is clearly no, you don't think the courts got it wrong. So essentially you're discrediting someone, not because they're wrong (she was proved right on both counts) but because she holds a different position to your own.

To me, that's a worrying position to take from someone I consider entirely reasonable in most matters and (in my opinion) you should back down from it - because you're clearly not up for defending it.
I wasn't discrediting her for getting the court verdict in her favour, (not twice, only once). I just don't like her attitude and was curious as to her motives for only applying her legal team to high profile cases. If she was as concerned for the British public as she makes out, why haven't we seen more of her or her organisation ?
Its very kind of you to think I'm entirely reasonable in most matters, and I'd like to reciprocate, and say that I genuinely don't give a fuck for you or your condescending attitude. 
Lets not bother each other in the future, and keep our personal comments to ourselves, shall we ? I don't need to be annoyed on a daily basis by an obnoxious, self righteous, Mr. Perfect.

I'll ignore the insults, if you're wound up about being questioned that's your problem not mine.

You don't like her attitude, basically means you don't think it's fair for anyone to air a view that is not in keeping with your own hardline Brexit stance. And that's the sort of approach we need to get past in this country, it's too polarised and we need compromise on both sides.

209So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 15:08

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Agreed nobody's budging, but it doesn't excuse making unfair allegations then refusing to back down when faced with the facts.

Glos - the answer to my question is clearly no, you don't think the courts got it wrong. So essentially you're discrediting someone, not because they're wrong (she was proved right on both counts) but because she holds a different position to your own.

To me, that's a worrying position to take from someone I consider entirely reasonable in most matters and (in my opinion) you should back down from it - because you're clearly not up for defending it.
I wasn't discrediting her for getting the court verdict in her favour, (not twice, only once). I just don't like her attitude and was curious as to her motives for only applying her legal team to high profile cases. If she was as concerned for the British public as she makes out, why haven't we seen more of her or her organisation ?
Its very kind of you to think I'm entirely reasonable in most matters, and I'd like to reciprocate, and say that I genuinely don't give a fuck for you or your condescending attitude. 
Lets not bother each other in the future, and keep our personal comments to ourselves, shall we ? I don't need to be annoyed on a daily basis by an obnoxious, self righteous, Mr. Perfect.

I'll ignore the insults, if you're wound up about being questioned that's your problem not mine.

You don't like her attitude, basically means you don't think it's fair for anyone to air a view that is not in keeping with your own hardline Brexit stance. And that's the sort of approach we need to get past in this country, it's too polarised and we need compromise on both sides.
This is a silly conclusion. Lets not continue with this eh?

210So much for parliamentary democracy - Page 7 Empty Re: So much for parliamentary democracy on Sat Sep 28 2019, 15:17

Guest


Guest
You're welcome to do whatever you want, I can honestly tell you im not trying to wind you up. 

If we can't even discuss each others viewpoints how can anyone expect to find a way out of this. It's ridiculous.

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