Forest Green Rovers 1-0 Bolton

Something has changed, yeah, last season we had a poor run of results, but we were battering teams, chance after chance, end to end fast flowing football. Last season our criticism wasn't that we're couldn't create chances but that we weren't scoring enough of them.
Our approach play has slowed down and I think it's time to change our line up a bit. Although, same issue remains. Who do you pick for the best?

If you pick Dapo on the left, you leave out iRedale and John, or you have to change the whole formation. If you change the formation, you change the style and the system and rather than keep working to perfect it, you've binned it off...

Biggie wrote:If you change the formation, you change the style and the system and rather than keep working to perfect it, you've binned it off...

So you'd keep a formation that has produced 1 goal from open play from our strikers?

Of course not.

4-4-2 is the simple way forward, but Evans prefers to play 4-2-1-2-2-1-1-1.

I don't really understand Evatt, he seems to stick with things way, way too long before he finally does something about it.

For example, in his first season he stuck with that useless young kid in goal until the boy's confidence became clearly shot and had to be taken out for his own good - in the meantime that had cost us countless points.  Last season he stuck to tippy tappy stuff until Christmas before he decided to mix it up a bit by playing long ball when the need arises.

This season again he seems to be sticking with style over substance by sticking to his game plan when really we should be potting the last two teams we played quite easily.

All that he had to do - and has been pointed out by Natash, would have been to play four at the back, two holding midfield with Dapo and Bradley wide and Charles and Dadi up front.

Let's not forget either that nearly all of the team have prior to joining the club, played that way and in that style and formation all their careers - so reverting back to it for the occasional game wouldn't be an issue for any of them.

I'm not saying scrap Evatt's preferred method of playing but what I am saying is sometimes you select the side in mind of the team you are playing - horses for courses - which Evatt seems to be doing - but what he isn't doing is that also sometimes means you have to also change your playing style as well!

The team for the last two games could easily have been

Traf

Jones, Santos, Johnston, Iredale

Bradley, MJ, Thomason, Dapo.

Charles, JDB


Which is more or less the teams he put out - just that 'style' we should have played in WOULD have been different.

If he had, the wasn't really any reason we shouldn't have won both games.

It really isn't rocket science, is it?

Sluffy wrote:I don't really understand Evatt, he seems to stick with things way, way too long before he finally does something about it.

For example, in his first season he stuck with that useless young kid in goal until the boy's confidence became clearly shot and had to be taken out for his own good - in the meantime that had cost us countless points.  Last season he stuck to tippy tappy stuff until Christmas before he decided to mix it up a bit by playing long ball when the need arises.

This season again he seems to be sticking with style over substance by sticking to his game plan when really we should be potting the last two teams we played quite easily.

All that he had to do - and has been pointed out by Natash, would have been to play four at the back, two holding midfield with Dapo and Bradley wide and Charles and Dadi up front.

Let's not forget either that nearly all of the team have prior to joining the club, played that way and in that style and formation all their careers - so reverting back to it for the occasional game wouldn't be an issue for any of them.

I'm not saying scrap Evatt's preferred method of playing but what I am saying is sometimes you select the side in mind of the team you are playing - horses for courses - which Evatt seems to be doing - but what he isn't doing is that also sometimes means you have to also change your playing style as well!

The team for the last two games could easily have been

Traf

Jones, Santos, Johnston, Iredale

Bradley, MJ, Thomason, Dapo.

Charles, JDB


Which is more or less the teams he put out - just that 'style' we should have played in WOULD have been different.

If he had, the wasn't really any reason we shouldn't have won both games.

It really isn't rocket science, is it?

MJ looked tired and young George barely touched the ball in the last two games.....I personally prefer Dempsey and Morley in the middle and Sadlier seeing far more game time.

terenceanne wrote:
MJ looked tired and young George barely touched the ball in the last two games.....I personally prefer Dempsey and Morley in the middle and Sadlier seeing far more game time.

You might well be right but what I was attempting to show above was that Evatt could have easily played the players he picked for the two games that he did (after all he tells us he picks 'horses for courses' BUT change the footballing 'style' he set them up in - and to one the players have spent their previous careers playing in.

My point being that not only can you pick players on the basis of 'horses for courses', but you can also pick formations and style of play for 'horses for courses too!

And probably should have done!

Sluffy wrote:

You might well be right but what I was attempting to show above was that Evatt could have easily played the players he picked for the two games that he did (after all he tells us he picks 'horses for courses' BUT change the footballing 'style' he set them up in - and to one the players have spent their previous careers playing in.

My point being that not only can you pick players on the basis of 'horses for courses', but you can also pick formations and style of play for 'horses for courses too!

And probably should have done!

That’s always assuming you have the right horses to play Sluffy. It’s ok trying to mirror what pep and others do but we don’t have the players to play that way. We do though have the players to play 443 and to play it well. We can debate about who we play in midfield but the defence and attack pretty much take care of themselves. We are creating nothing with the system we’re playing because the players aren’t good enough, surely we can all see that? At the moment, we’re leaving out most all of our creative players in Dapo, Sheehan, Morley, Dempsey and Sadlier so where is the sense in that? In fact I’d even give Sadlier a try up top because he’s big, strong and can shoot with either foot. We need to change something because we’re awful at the moment and I can’t see it getting any better unless we do.

Let's try and knock on the head this thing about us being unable to play like Pep.

Of course we can't play at the level City does, or we would have the players we've got - bigger clubs would have bought them by now BUT we also aren't playing the same quality of teams City are playing either!

There's absolutely no reason why a third tier club like we are, play third tier 'Pep' style football against third tier defenses.

Look around, many other clubs now play 'pressing' football at all levels - it is a trend/fashion in football and many teams have copied it - that's how football works, otherwise we still be playing Nat Lofthouse style 2-3-5 formations.

It's self-apparent that the pressing system favoured by Evatt DOES WORK at our level as the results from January onwards this year (spread over two divisions) have been excellent.

The issue what we are talking about here is that we haven't got the quality of players to make it successful in all instances and I and others are suggesting sometimes a little step back to the previous 4-4-2 formation (or even your suggested 4-4-3 if the ref is bad at counting players on the pitch) may actually be more helpful on occasions, on a horses for courses occasions such as the last two games we played - and lost - which really we should have won easily.

A more flexible and tactical manager I suggest would have won these two games with the players we had on the pitch - but by playing a traditional 4-4-2 rather than the pressing style that Evatt is wedded to.

Evatt only changes the formation when the shit has hit the fan so not expecting it to happen just yet.

He could tweak it slightly to go from 3412 to 343, at least he could get the likes of Dapo and Sadlier either side of a main striker (JDB for me)

I’m worried TBH. We haven’t got much in the way of pace and power in the squad and there have been games when even our passing has been poor. What we do have is some players who can play well occasionally, some who have a decent work rate and a team that gels every now and then to produce some good stuff albeit seldom ending in a goal.
They’ve all had their chance to impress and none have consistently.
Seems like Evatt is reactive. Dapo was shit for weeks before he was finally benched. We played a “creative” midfield and the opposition walked through us, so he stopped that with two DMs and we lost forward impetus. 
Somewhere in there is a starting eleven and a system that works best for the players we have but Evatt needs to find it quickly - and I suspect his failure to do so is having an effect on the players as performances seem to have dropped off a bit.

wanderlust wrote:I’m worried TBH. We haven’t got much in the way of pace and power in the squad and there have been games when even our passing has been poor. What we do have is some players who can play well occasionally, some who have a decent work rate and a team that gels every now and then to produce some good stuff albeit seldom ending in a goal.
They’ve all had their chance to impress and none have consistently.
Seems like Evatt is reactive. Dapo was shit for weeks before he was finally benched. We played a “creative” midfield and the opposition walked through us, so he stopped that with two DMs and we lost forward impetus. 
Somewhere in there is a starting eleven and a system that works best for the players we have but Evatt needs to find it quickly - and I suspect his failure to do so is having an effect on the players as performances seem to have dropped off a bit.

Lusty, you claim Dapo was shit for weeks before being benched but that was because he was played out of his normal position on the left and tried to be fitted into the unfamiliar striking or No10 role. It was only since it became clear that neither suited him that he was benched. He’s essentially a winger and players like Morley, Sheehan, Dempsey and Sadlier are skilful attacking midfielders and not defensive or side to side workers. Equally, Dion and Kachunga are strikers whose preference is to run onto balls not chase round like headless chickens closing defenders down.

I accept Sluffys point that many teams play like this now, including England but when it’s not played well with players who don’t suit that style it’s awful to watch and wholly unproductive, as we’ve seen over the last two weeks. I know Evatt wants tp play that way but he can only do that successfully by recruiting players who have the skills to play it and right now he doesn’t so why not take advantage of what you have right now rather than leave our most skilful players sitting on the bench, or not even that?

Whitesince63 wrote:
Lusty, you claim Dapo was shit for weeks before being benched but that was because he was played out of his normal position on the left and tried to be fitted into the unfamiliar striking or No10 role. It was only since it became clear that neither suited him that he was benched. He’s essentially a winger and players like Morley, Sheehan, Dempsey and Sadlier are skilful attacking midfielders and not defensive or side to side workers. Equally, Dion and Kachunga are strikers whose preference is to run onto balls not chase round like headless chickens closing defenders down.

I accept Sluffys point that many teams play like this now, including England but when it’s not played well with players who don’t suit that style it’s awful to watch and wholly unproductive, as we’ve seen over the last two weeks. I know Evatt wants tp play that way but he can only do that successfully by recruiting players who have the skills to play it and right now he doesn’t so why not take advantage of what you have right now rather than leave our most skilful players sitting on the bench, or not even that?

It was last year when I first made the point about the problem of wanting to play like City with lower level players and that hasn’t changed but my criticism of Dapo isn’t positional but more to do with running into cul de sacs, turning over the ball, hanging on to it when he should pass to players in a better position etc - you know, head down stuff like a shopping trolley on the Cresta Run. 
Presumably he’s had his chance playing wide and Evatt has realised he can’t create enough as others do in that position. They measure everything you know.

But i think thats the problem, if you dont have a team that play weekley with each other and constanly change then a team cant blend or jel,we have more than enough good players on the bench,just play one team with reserves for injurys