Donald Trump for President of the USA

gloswhite wrote:
We're being led by a political 'elite' that thinks the country's woes can be sorted by a pasty tax, (later dropped), or charging 5p for a plastic carrier bag, and the public have had enough. 
Society is going to rat shit, and the politicians were quite content to tweak the rules, but not actually solve the problems. Makes you wonder if the revolution has finally come.

Without going into the rights and wrongs of brexit a major source of frustration for me is that it is completely deluded to think that a brexit vote is really a vote against the establishment. I'm not disagreeing with you and sluffy as to what a lot of brexit voters thought - yes they thought they were voting against the status quo, but the reality is completely different.

In what way are Boris, the Daily Mail, the Sun and assorted billionaires not the establishment?

Sluffy wrote:I've never understood the mind of any women

PM me for tips.

Perhaps we all need reminding that the USA's first black president, a civilised, dignified man, is preparing to hand over leadership of the free world to a man endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan.

 Enough said.

Trump will do a great job, exciting times ahead.

okocha wrote:Perhaps we all need reminding that the USA's first black president, a civilised, dignified man, is preparing to hand over leadership of the free world to a man endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan.

 Enough said.

True... a wonderful family man, a civilized and dignified man... but and this is a big but... another politician who could not keep his campaign promises... which is why many of us supported him.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/

Between Trump and Clinton we had a choice between two pathological liars.  Much like the Brexit vote, many people voted on the basis of who they hated less and out of anger at the perceived establishment.  Many did not vote at all. 

Will Trump succeed?  Only time will tell... but campaign promises are hard to fill when you have a government that thrives on private and corporate hand-outs to run for office.  Let's see what he can do, and we can all criticise later.

okocha wrote:Perhaps we all need reminding that the USA's first black president, a civilised, dignified man, is preparing to hand over leadership of the free world to a man endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan.

 Enough said.

Agreed, but what has he achieved during his term as President?

Next to nothing.

Obama was constantly stymied by Congress.

What little he could do to put a spoke in the gun lobby could now be rolled back under Trump.

okocha wrote: "Do you pick someone who’s under federal investigation for using a private email server?

"Or do you pick someone who called Mexicans rapists, claimed the president was born in Kenya, proposed banning an entire religion from entering the US, mocked a disabled reporter, said John McCain wasn’t a war hero because he was captured, attacked the parents of a fallen soldier, bragged about committing sexual assault, was accused by 12 women of committing sexual assault, said some of those women weren’t attractive for him to sexually assault, said more countries should get nukes, said that he would force the military to commit war crimes, said a judge was biased because his parents were Mexicans, said women should be punished for having abortions, incited violence at his rallies, called global warming a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese, called for his opponent to be jailed, declared bankruptcy six times, bragged about not paying income taxes, stiffed his contractors and employees, lost a billion dollars in one year, scammed customers at his fake university, bought a six-foot-tall painting of himself with money from his fake foundation, has a trial for fraud coming up in November, insulted an opponent’s looks, insulted an opponent’s wife’s looks, and bragged about grabbing women by the pussy?

"Hmmm.....what a difficult choice!!

Trump all the way!

Sluffy wrote:

okocha wrote:Why do you say that, Boggers and Sluffy? What personality traits and actual policies of Trump lead you to believe that he has anything positive to offer to America and the world?

 I ask you to view the links that Bonce and I have provided today and come back with your answer. 

Shouldn't Presidents be role models, to lead by example?

Obama has been a most dignified president over the last eight years and the country has not only voted against his party but for Trump of all people.

Everyone one in any sort of political or business leadership in this country wanted us to remain in the EU, yet the country voted for the likes of Boris and Gove.

Doesn't that tell you something?

It does me.

It tells me that ruling elite have lost tune with the majority, who have been left behind and have suffered.

They have been sick of it and rather unexpectedly by those 'who know better', and have said to hell with this, any other way than the one we've been going can't be any worse for 'us' even if it means it is worse for 'them'.


Brexit and Trump shows they no longer will.

The majority didn't feel they were going anywhere inside the EU or following the Washington elite and have - for better or worse - voted with their feet.

This notion that a significant number of people feeling disenfranchised is behind Brexit and Trump's win has been trotted out a lot, but at best it's only a fraction of the truth. People always have and always will feel hard done to because the nature of capitalist society necessitates that there will always be winners and losers - so that doesn't explain why they voted this time and not in the past.

What is new (relatively) is that elections are increasingly won and lost on the basis of the cult of personality (George Clooney is apparently 100/1 to be the next President) and unregulated sound bites. Basically, it is apparently no longer illegal to tell outrageous lies in a political campaign - because you can promise the earth and get away with it for the first time in history.

Add dumbing down to that and it's relatively easy to con a sufficient number of people into believing they are all voting for the same thing - which Brexiteers an Trump supporters clearly aren't. We all know that Trump won't build a wall or revitalise American steel production, or throw Hillary in prison - but his supporters want to think he will even though the backtracking has already begun.
In the same way, we all know that the decline in our economy post-Brexit will hit those that voted to leave the hardest and that it will make no difference to immigration (although ironically, it has increased since the referendum) but most Brexiteers still believe our  immigration laws are made in Europe and not in Westminster. 

And the other factor at play is that neither election requires a majority of eligible voters to pass. 

Until political campaign's are subjected to the same or higher standards of regulation that are applied to commercial advertisers - who have to answer to the Advertising Standards Authority in the UK - reasoned debate and discussion will not be possible. Until then, cowboys like Trump and Farage will be able to get away with any lie they wish to peddle and entire countries will be put at risk in the pursuit of personal gain.

wanderlust wrote:In the same way, we all know that the decline in our economy post-Brexit

Seriously, just fuck off.

You're just some knobhead from Norfolk who doesn't have a clue how our economy will look in 5, 10 or 20 years.

When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

boltonbonce wrote:Obama was constantly stymied by Congress.

What little he could do to put a spoke in the gun lobby could now be rolled back under Trump.

He had Congress for his first two years... thereafter you are correct.

When did Liberalism become a dirty word?

If you read any of the comments on any article about either American politics or Brexit on the internet, you will see the word "Liberal" thrown about as a term of abuse.

I can sort of understand how it's become a buzzword for right wing loonies who hate foreigners, gays, women, Muslims and pretty much anybody outside of their village, but that's only because they've heard other people saying it.

If you asked them to give you the dictionary definition of Liberalism, I think they'd struggle.

It's become a pejorative catch-all for anybody sightly left of Hitler.

How and when did that happen?

Bread2.0 wrote:When did Liberalism become a dirty word?

If you read any of the comments on any article about either American politics or Brexit on the internet, you will see the word "Liberal" thrown about as a term of abuse.

I can sort of understand how it's become a buzzword for right wing loonies who hate foreigners, gays, women, Muslims and pretty much anybody outside of their village, but that's only because they've heard other people saying it.

If you asked them to give you the dictionary definition of Liberalism, I think they'd struggle.

It's become a pejorative catch-all for anybody sightly left of Hitler.

How and when did that happen?

The fringe on both sides are equally bad.

I'm not disputing that, Obs.

I was just wondering how and why we've got to a place where people now bandy about the name of a political philosophy which is all about liberty and equality as a term of abuse.

As though being respectful to your fellow man and treating him as an equal is somehow a bad thing.

Or am I missing something?

Actually, now I come to think about it.....

......is this the long-term legacy of Thatcher and Reagan's "Greed is good" mantra in the 80's, which encouraged everybody to shit on their grannies, if it looked like there'd be something in it for them?

I think it might be.

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

To be honest I think you are the one in denial Lusty.

In general terms the young of the two respective country's voted for 'Remain' and 'Clinton' yet as we know they both lost.

So an awful lot of people who have experienced many previous elections - and broken electoral promises - voted against.

I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall - they voted for them because they wanted a change from the way they have been going for the last twenty or thirty years.

For them, they have seen their 'world's' get worse, their prospects (and those of their children) decline and can't see anyway by going the way they have, that things will ever improve.

I think both France and Germany current political leaderships will both face a similar wave of discontent from the electorate the next time they go to the country - not because they are doing a bad job or are going in the wrong direction - but because many, many normal folk have seen things get gradually worse for them and their children and don't want to go down that road anymore.

You can rationalise Brexit and Trump any way you want but the bottom line to most people is that the EU and Washington wasn't benefiting them in their day to day perception and a change - any change - was better for them than carrying on the way they were.

In football terms the Cameron's, Clinton's and many other current traditional western leaders - seem to have lost the dressing room.

Sluffy wrote:


I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall 

Plenty of people voted to leave the EU because they don't like Muslims and they fell for all the bullshit about "getting control of our borders back" and somehow equated the two.

I know this because I live amongst and work with them and it is a fact.

And I don't think it's too much of an assumption to believe that the same applies with Trump and his rhetoric about banning Muslims from entering the US and building that wall.

And if you don't understand that there is a sizeable proportion of the English working class who are still stuck in 1973 when it comes to "pakis and poofters", it's you who are deluded.

Farage and Trump know these people exist and have exploited their racist views to further their own agendas.

A bit like that little Austrian fella did in Germany in the 30's.

And that's why this shit is serious.

Bread2.0 wrote:

Sluffy wrote:I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall 

Plenty of people voted to leave the EU because they don't like Muslims and they fell for all the bullshit about "getting control of our borders back" and somehow equated the two.

I know this because I live amongst and work with them and it is a fact.

And I don't think it's too much of an assumption to believe that the same applies with Trump and his rhetoric about banning Muslims from entering the US and building that wall.

And if you don't understand that there is a sizeable proportion of the English working class who are still stuck in 1973 when it comes to "pakis and poofters", it's you who are deluded.

Farage and Trump know these people exist and have exploited their racist views to further their own agendas.

A bit like that little Austrian fella did in Germany in the 30's.

And that's why this shit is serious.

Yes you must be right.

People must actually believe what politicians tell them.

They must never had had any election promise made to them broken ever before.

They've been closet racist and homophobes for the last 43 years (funny how the BNP and other such party's never took off though?).

Clearly fascism is about to sweep the western world.

How could I have missed all that, when there was me simply thinking many ordinary, normal people simply wanted a change from the way we were going because it had stopped working for them a long time back?

Silly me.