Armchair Twats Have Killed Us

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Nat even by your standards this is idiotic. So I go to a restaurant, pay my money and get food poisoning from the fish. Am I then not entitled to warn my family and friends about how dire the food was when I was there?  

Of course you are. But if you spent the next three years ranting on a fish forum, casting allsorts of aspersions about the restaurant and the chef, do you not think a time would come when your opinion was out of date? The restaurant may have sacked the chef or their fish supplier. Or turned into a titty bar.

Your continual abuse on the fish forum may put other people off going even though there is a brilliant new chef in charge. Perhaps if you went to the restaurant again you might find the fish is delicious. And even if you didn't, even if it was still rubbish, at least your opinion would be valid rather than three years out of date.

And I should add that your continual abuse of the fish restaurant may put them out of business. But if you and your family/friends supported that restaurant and gave it another go there's a good chance it would flourish.

I think I actually prefer all the "Aren't fat depressed people all twats?" threads to this pointless drivel.

We all know it's an act and you're simply trying to provoke debate but you're on a loser with the basic premise on this one.

You used to be good at this shit - what happened?

Really? Even though I knew from watching it poison yet more customers on TV and refuse to change its ways with basic hygiene you contend I should give it another go? That I should take my family to a place I know doesn't care about its customers except as cash machines? Now I see why you claim you're a former businesswoman. No doubt your customers were mean to you by refusing to buy your rubbish and worse, telling their friends and colleagues how crap you were. Tell me, when you become an undischarged bankrupt? Because if that's what you're truly saying we should do and that it's our fault for refusing to allow ourselves to be duped or warn others about that then you must have gone bust very, very quickly.

Breadman wrote:I think I actually prefer all the "Aren't fat depressed people all twats?" threads to this pointless drivel.

We all know it's an act and you're simply trying to provoke debate but you're on a loser with the basic premise on this one.

You used to be good at this shit - what happened?

I'm simply saying that if all the so-called "fans" who rant on forums like this actually went to the games the club might be in a better position.

Do you disagree?

You spend your life on here but don't go to the matches, isn't that a bit strange?

It's a bit like you ranting every day about tampons.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Really? Even though I knew from watching it poison yet more customers on TV and refuse to change its ways with basic hygiene you contend I should give it another go?

There's a difference though, BWFC aren't potentially killing anyone.

Let's say the restaurant was on your street and you'd been going to it since you were a boy, as had your father and his father before him.

You had some bad meals (just poor tasting food, not poisoned food) and stopped going but still feel a bond with the restaurant. Do you think your continual abuse of the restaurant and its staff on the fish forum is fair to the restaurant?

Don't you think there are better ways to help the restaurant you love?

This is actually quite poignant and sad to witness.

It's like that scene in Raging Bull where Jake LaMotta makes a twat out of himself in public when he tries being a stand-up comedian but nobody laughs.

#shame

If you don't like the thread then don't get involved. Thank you.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Really? Even though I knew from watching it poison yet more customers on TV and refuse to change its ways with basic hygiene you contend I should give it another go?

There's a difference though, BWFC aren't potentially killing anyone.

Let's say the restaurant was on your street and you'd been going to it since you were a boy, as had your father and his father before him.

You had some bad meals (just poor tasting food, not poisoned food) and stopped going but still feel a bond with the restaurant. Do you think your continual abuse of the restaurant and its staff on the fish forum is fair to the restaurant?

Don't you think there are better ways to help the restaurant you love?

Yes, if they want to regain my trust and more of my money they need to make an effort to improve not blithely tell the world all is fine when it patently isn't. By the way I have been to matches this season and hold a season ticket. I however absolutely understand those who don't who criticise the club. The fact is they have made a much more sensible decision than I. 

A football club no longer cares about its fans as people, be it Manchester United, Bolton Wanderers or even Chorley FC. They care only about how to get the maximum amount of our money from us that they can and the only way a football fan can influence a boardroom now is to shut his wallet. In BWFC's case even that has not worked as Gartside continued to lie through his tteth, Eddie at best was ignorant and at worst a willing co-conspirator in the web of lies and the football, the thing we're meant to pay our money to enjoy became worse and worse along with our league position. 

A club that treats its fans with such contempt for so long doesn't deserve their loyalty, money or any kind of affection. Football is a business full stop. A business that so signally fails to deliver or even pay lip service to the concept of delivering value to its customers deserves to go bankrupt. 

The bottom line is I want Bolton Wanderers to survive but I can't begin to justify any statement that suggests their former customers have no right to give their opinion or a statement that suggests it is the customer's fault for refusing to be robbed any further. The fact is as things stand we do NOT deserve to survive as a football club. No amount of blaming people on an internet forum can disguise that or where the true blame for our current woes actually lies.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Really? Even though I knew from watching it poison yet more customers on TV and refuse to change its ways with basic hygiene you contend I should give it another go?

There's a difference though, BWFC aren't potentially killing anyone.

Let's say the restaurant was on your street and you'd been going to it since you were a boy, as had your father and his father before him.

You had some bad meals (just poor tasting food, not poisoned food) and stopped going but still feel a bond with the restaurant. Do you think your continual abuse of the restaurant and its staff on the fish forum is fair to the restaurant?

Don't you think there are better ways to help the restaurant you love?

Yes, if they want to regain my trust and more of my money they need to make an effort to improve not blithely tell the world all is fine when it patently isn't. By the way I have been to matches this season and hold a season ticket. I however absolutely understand those who don't who criticise the club. The fact is they have made a much more sensible decision than I. 

A football club no longer cares about its fans as people, be it Manchester United, Bolton Wanderers or even Chorley FC. They care only about how to get the maximum amount of our money from us that they can and the only way a football fan can influence a boardroom now is to shut his wallet. In BWFC's case even that has not worked as Gartside continued to lie through his tteth, Eddie at best was ignorant and at worst a willing co-conspirator in the web of lies and the football, the thing we're meant to pay our money to enjoy became worse and worse along with our league position. 

A club that treats its fans with such contempt for so long doesn't deserve their loyalty, money or any kind of affection. Football is a business full stop. A business that so signally fails to deliver or even pay lip service to the concept of delivering value to its customers deserves to go bankrupt. 

The bottom line is I want Bolton Wanderers to survive but I can't begin to justify any statement that suggests their former customers have no right to give their opinion or a statement that suggests it is the customer's fault for refusing to be robbed any further. The fact is as things stand we do NOT deserve to survive as a football club. No amount of blaming people on an internet forum can disguise that or where the true blame for our current woes actually lies.

Spot on Pete.

Bwfc1958 wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Really? Even though I knew from watching it poison yet more customers on TV and refuse to change its ways with basic hygiene you contend I should give it another go?

There's a difference though, BWFC aren't potentially killing anyone.

Let's say the restaurant was on your street and you'd been going to it since you were a boy, as had your father and his father before him.

You had some bad meals (just poor tasting food, not poisoned food) and stopped going but still feel a bond with the restaurant. Do you think your continual abuse of the restaurant and its staff on the fish forum is fair to the restaurant?

Don't you think there are better ways to help the restaurant you love?

Yes, if they want to regain my trust and more of my money they need to make an effort to improve not blithely tell the world all is fine when it patently isn't. By the way I have been to matches this season and hold a season ticket. I however absolutely understand those who don't who criticise the club. The fact is they have made a much more sensible decision than I. 

A football club no longer cares about its fans as people, be it Manchester United, Bolton Wanderers or even Chorley FC. They care only about how to get the maximum amount of our money from us that they can and the only way a football fan can influence a boardroom now is to shut his wallet. In BWFC's case even that has not worked as Gartside continued to lie through his tteth, Eddie at best was ignorant and at worst a willing co-conspirator in the web of lies and the football, the thing we're meant to pay our money to enjoy became worse and worse along with our league position. 

A club that treats its fans with such contempt for so long doesn't deserve their loyalty, money or any kind of affection. Football is a business full stop. A business that so signally fails to deliver or even pay lip service to the concept of delivering value to its customers deserves to go bankrupt. 

The bottom line is I want Bolton Wanderers to survive but I can't begin to justify any statement that suggests their former customers have no right to give their opinion or a statement that suggests it is the customer's fault for refusing to be robbed any further. The fact is as things stand we do NOT deserve to survive as a football club. No amount of blaming people on an internet forum can disguise that or where the true blame for our current woes actually lies.

Spot on Pete.

Hey Natasha whats like to have been tore a new one?

Cajunboy wrote:Is all this foul language really necessary?

No but frankly you won't change most poster's minds here. Believe me I have tried several times. The best thing you can do is accept it and just be yourself. I generally do not swear although I have done so on occasion. Most of the people on here use the vernacular in moderation while a few use it simply for effect or because they think it makes them more noticeable or cooler. 

By the way, it's nice to see a new-ish poster here in case the mods and admins haven't had the chance to say so Cajun. Welcome to the nuthouse

To summarise: I think Nat's argument is:- firstly, that fans who don't attend are in no position to judge players;

secondly, that abusive comments about the owner are guesswork and supposition; 

thirdly, that comments about PG and his health are also simply based on suspicion and hearsay (though, God knows, we DO know that he has previous when it comes to dishonesty and evasion!)

If Nat left it there, it would be possible to find some truth in what she/he says about those who rant just for the sake of it, when few actual facts exist........ but the argument winds up in some kind of delirium in which the fans are blamed for the club's financial state, using allusions to Ramsey (Gordon, not Sir Alf) and Loch Fyne. 

I'm sure I will be corrected if I've misinterpreted the ramblings.

Why are fans that don't attend in no position to judge the players? 

I had a season ticket from 1989 to 2013 and the only reason i stopped was because i just couldn't afford it anymore. 

I went to pretty much every single home game for 24 years and a hell of a lot of away games too. This is my club and just because i can't afford to attend every week that doesn't change. 

I wake up on a Saturday and the match is on my mind. I listen to every game and watch whenever possible and no matter what I'm doing on a Saturday afternoon it's never far from my mind. If i criticise is not me having a wild guess. It's from the people who have eyes on the game. I've put more than enough money in over the years to warrant an opinion.

To be honest, as always Natasha's threads DO contain an element of truth - no matter how small it may be.

For many, many seasons I was not an armchair fan like I am today and did attend games (both home and away) regularly BUT even then I was not fanatical enough to go to all the games I could have because football to me was (and still is) an entertainment and sometimes I found other things in my life more important to me at certain times over those years.

I'm not even saying I only went when we were playing well and winning - perversely the opposite times when we were playing shit and getting battered were some of the best times I spent at Burnden, having a laugh at how bad we were with my mates and other long suffering whites.

For me the current problems with Bolton over the last few years is that we seemed to move away from football on the pitch being our main focus. For reasons I'm still not clear on we seemed to put more effort into obtaining planning permission to develop land, buy out the stake in the hotel to own it 100%, pour millions into the academy and Euxton, fanny about as to who should be the shirt sponsors and many other (to my mind anyway) pointless and needless distractions - whilst at the same time allow manager after manager carte blanche to buy utter dross of players for top money, long contracts and eye watering wages.

Even then if Coyle hadn't got us relegated we probably - with the ever increasing money poured into the Premier League by Sky - still be bumbling along as usual - pissing money up the wall - but still viable.

When the organisation loses focus is it any wonder that things go wrong?

I've no idea why we built up such as massive debt - no other team other than the likes of United, City and Chelsea - dug a financial hole for themselves so deep as we did - and what did we have to show for it in the end - players like Andrews who we could not afford to play for us - so we had to loan him out for the best part of his contract length; infrastructure like the academy who have produced no player of note for all those millions spent on it; an hotel that nobody wants to sleep in (even the team and the manager themselves - they go to the hotel in Standish instead!), and a top of the range training ground that we are desperately trying to flog off to Preston North End for God's sake!

Something has not been right about the club for several years but nobody outside Davies and Gartsides inner circle quite knows what.

The side show in all of this seems to be the performance on the pitch which quite clearly as suffered - and dare I say rightly so - if the owners can't be bothered about the football then is it any surprise it suffers directly?

Fair play to those who turn up week in week out to support the club.

Whilst there is no fun around the place I very much doubt I would if I still lived up north.

Good job it is only a game though!

Natasha Whittam wrote:And I should add that your continual abuse of the fish restaurant may put them out of business. But if you and your family/friends supported that restaurant and gave it another go there's a good chance it would flourish.

I don't eat fish so could I do the same to a greasy spoon....Oh, and on the subject I'm like horse manure, all over the place but that's the job I chose. I've been to around a dozen games, most away, so am I allowed to criticise? I think you're just teasing.

Bwfc1958 wrote:Why are fans that don't attend in no position to judge the players? 

Er, because you haven't seen them play. You may as well judge Wigan, Preston or Accrington players, you'll have the same (lack of) insight.

But this thread is more about the keyboard warriors who love to slag Eddie Davies, Gartside and others for not doing enough to keep the club afloat, when they have been sat at home on a Saturday afternoon for the last three seasons.

It's absolutely fine for people to stop watching BWFC, in fact I applaud them, but why some of those people feel they have the right to criticise other people for lack of action is beyond me.

Either shut the fook up or get yourself to the Macron.

in that case seeing as i go every week i'll carry on slagging off Gartside and Saint Eddie. The two of them have run this once great club into the ground and Eddie in particular is just standing back and watching us go belly up

Norpig wrote:in that case seeing as i go every week i'll carry on slagging off Gartside and Saint Eddie. The two of them have run this once great club into the ground and Eddie in particular is just standing back and watching us go belly up

Your opinion is perfectly valid. You are backing the club with your coin so you can say what you want.

As an armchair twat whose mantra is "lets not get carried away with slagging off the club/Board/Owner until we have all the facts" I would point out that a lot of the people who are doing the slagging off on here and other forums - and in the world generally - are season ticket holders/regular attenders.

There is no correlation between slagging off the club and regular attendance at home games so I have to say you're talking rubbish Nat. Although I do appreciate the fact that you specified "people who live locally that don't attend games but slag off the club" as it appears you are finally recognising the logistical and financial implications of long-distance journeys to the Macron.

If and when the facts surrounding our financial demise become public knowledge and the allegations of inappropriate and incompetent management/downright deception turn out to be true, I will be the first to join in the condemnation, but those who are perhaps jumping the gun (IMO despite the circumstantial evidence) are not ruining the site - they are expressing an opinion as is their right.