How is the Tory government doing?

okocha wrote:Scotland, N.I., backbenchers, unions, Labour, Lib Dems, grammar schools, state secondary schools, sixth-form colleges, pupils, parents, local councils, teachers and headteachers etc........
....all denounce the unfairness of using a flawed algorithm to decide young people's future prospects-----

--- and this is Boris' response, all arm-waving, hammily punching the air, blather, rhetoric and denials:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53771965


He and Cummings, whose brainwave I expect this is, are not fit to run the country, and should resign, taking Williamson and the rest of the sycophantic cabinet with them.

Once again though Okocha, don't you think it's all AFTER the event.

Shouldn't all these outraged people have brought this to our attention before the results were out?

I wasn't even aware they were using an algorithm until it all kicked off, was it common knowledge that was the plan?

I'm glad my Son is only 12 and doesn't have to put up with this potentially ruining his future.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Once again though Okocha, don't you think it's all AFTER the event.

Shouldn't all these outraged people have brought this to our attention before the results were out?

How could anyone possibly know beforehand that the outcome of using Cummings' algorithm would be such an abomination? 
Such wild ineptitude exceeds any of the most pessimistic forecasts.

Anyway, Wales are now going to use predicted grades too. And hopefully Boris and co. will fall into line as regards a u-turn on the A level results.... and before the GCSE grades are released on Thursday.

The bigger question on here is why you continue to defend the Government and all its often calamitous errors and blatantly callous decisions that favour the privileged few.

okocha wrote:The bigger question on here is why you continue to defend the Government and all its often calamitous errors and blatantly callous decisions that favour the privileged few.

I'm not defending them, but it is becoming tiresome seeing every single thing being criticised after the event. People just lose all credibility in my eyes.

If it's such an outrage why didn't you say so in advance so something could be done?

Tell me before the event and you've got my attention.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

I'm not defending them, but it is becoming tiresome seeing every single thing being criticised after the event. People just lose all credibility in my eyes.

If it's such an outrage why didn't you say so in advance so something could be done?

Tell me before the event and you've got my attention.

If you don't mind me saying so, your comment is pretty ludicrous, Natasha.

 Only the government and Ofqual knew in advance what they were going to do with the results, and, having known for months that, without actual exams, they would adjust grades so that those in private schools would benefit whilst those in deprived areas or at run-of-the-mill state schools would be penalised. You can't call that fair, can you? At least the other leaders in the rest of the UK saw what to do, whereas Boris is more intent on stubbornly defending the indefensible.

We, the unsuspecting public, trust government to do the right thing.

And as for your opinion that if I had said something before the event, action  could have been taken, that's plainly potty! What influence do I have, writing on a fooball forum?!
And finally, I don't seek your attention, but thank you for showing some interest, which is my only aim.

I see they have now come to their senses and done the decent thing finally, but have caused themselves untold damage.

The thing i don't understand is why (from a political standpoint) they decided that being harsh was the right way to go in the first place? Surely somebody said behind the scenes that public moral is low and that last thing they need to do is kick it more, while giving critics another angle of incompetence and callousness.

Right outcome in the end anyway, hope Williamson resigns though the weasle.

okocha wrote:If you don't mind me saying so, your comment is pretty ludicrous, Natasha.

 Only the government and Ofqual knew in advance what they were going to do with the results, and, having known for months that, without actual exams, they would adjust grades so that those in private schools would benefit whilst those in deprived areas or at run-of-the-mill state schools would be penalised. You can't call that fair, can you? At least the other leaders in the rest of the UK saw what to do, whereas Boris is more intent on stubbornly defending the indefensible.

We, the unsuspecting public, trust government to do the right thing.

And as for your opinion that if I had said something before the event, action  could have been taken, that's plainly potty! What influence do I have, writing on a fooball forum?!
And finally, I don't seek your attention, but thank you for showing some interest, which is my only aim.

I was talking people in general, not you in particular.

You say "at least the other leaders in the rest of the UK saw what to do", but again that was only after the event. Why didn't they find out beforehand what the plan regarding marks was? Surely these "leaders" carry some sway?

It's too easy in these unprecedented times to have a pop after the event.

Williamson and the head of Ofqual have apologised as they should have, but not a word of apology from Cummings, the apparent "brains" behind the algorithm, or from his puppy dog, Johnson, who this morning was proclaiming that the system was robust and fair, and that there would be no u-turn.

Hands up if you expected Boris to apologise! They embarrass themselves daily and need to resign along with Gavin, before more damage is done. Can't see good trade deals materialising, especially given the ministers that are trusted with delivering them. All public trust in competence has disappeared.

okocha wrote: All public trust in competence has disappeared.

You know that for a fact?

No, most people probably won’t care. But to anyone who is watching closely it’s yet another sign of cabinet incompetence. This is what happens when loyalty is your only criteria for some of the country’s most important positions.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:No, most people probably won’t care. But to anyone who is watching closely it’s yet another sign of cabinet incompetence. This is what happens when loyalty is your only criteria for some of the country’s most important positions.

Is loyalty not important to you?

Dogs are loyal, I like dogs. Do I want one as education secretary? Not particularly.

That’s a lie, of course I do. Who wouldn’t want to see that?!

T.R.O.Y. wrote:No, most people probably won’t care. But to anyone who is watching closely it’s yet another sign of cabinet incompetence. This is what happens when loyalty is your only criteria for some of the country’s most important positions.

That's not strictly true - Heads of Government Departments are in a sense just puppets and anyone, me you or Uncle Tom Cobley could head one up because the political agenda of the government will establish the policy and the departments civil service will enact it and you/me the person appointed head of the department is basically there to be a 'figurehead' and not a specialist or expert in the role.

I doubt Williamson took any part in deciding to award grades on this 'system' they employed and would have looked to Johnson/Cummings as what to do when the shit hit the fan in Scotland first.

Clearly lack of leadership between finding out the scale of the problem in Scotland to doing something about it today but yet again I doubt that was any of Williamson's doing.

Don't know if you ever saw Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister or The Thick of it - but they give you a feel about how impotent Ministers really are and how they are basically largely irrelevant to how things actually work.

I feel a bit sorry for him and the likes of Hancock who have basically be put up to defend the indefensible at times.

The fault isn't actually at their door, it's above them where the problem lies.

You doubt he took any part whatsoever? Interesting theory that. I tend to think the ‘Cummings runs the country’ line is a bit over blown. Little doubt he’s the most powerful government advisor in my lifetime at least though.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Tell me before the event and you've got my attention.

Ok then. When Brexit starts to become a reality next year the country will go to shit, prices will rise, key materials and medicines will suffer shortages and the government will blame covid.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:You doubt he took any part whatsoever? Interesting theory that. I tend to think the ‘Cummings runs the country’ line is a bit over blown. Little doubt he’s the most powerful government advisor in my lifetime at least though.

Well having a quick look at his bio, his background is in business, hence this reply I guess back in 2010 -

7. If you could run any government department, which would it be and why? BIS – Having worked in manufacturing since leaving university, I am passionate about supporting business and I believe that it is business and manufacturing that can lead the way out of difficult economic times. I would love to see people with real experience leading and shaping policy and I want to see universities working to support industry as I believe that you can make a real difference through better use of the innovations that take place in universities and encouraging a greater transfer of skills between university and business.  

https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2010/09/gavin-williamson-mp-answers-conhomes-twenty-questions-for-the-class-of-2010.html

Since then he was PPS to Northern Ireland, then to transport, then to Cameron at PM.

He's not in Johnson's camp -

When Cameron resigned, Williamson privately vowed to do all he could to stop Boris Johnson entering No 10. He swiftly identified May as the best vehicle available for the task. After seeking Cameron’s permission, he phoned the then home secretary and offered to assist her bid. Within a day, he was invited to become her parliamentary campaign manager. “I was absolutely flabbergasted, but I accepted immediately,” he later recalled.

For May, the antithesis of the clubbable Williamson, the contacts gifted by her new recruit proved invaluable. When the new Prime Minister took office, Williamson was rewarded with the post of Chief Whip, a few weeks after his 40th birthday. In a mark of his stature, he attended the daily 8.30am meeting of May’s inner circle (unlike Philip Hammond and Boris Johnson).

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/observations/2017/07/gavin-williamson-cunning-tory-chief-whip-tarantula-his-desk

He became Chief Whip for a year then on to Defence.

He only became Education Secretary last year.

His networking was that he was close to Cameron, then May and isn't a threat to Johnson and that was why he's been kept.

Voted Remain.

So yes I doubt very much that he particularly sought Education, is overly active in its policy formation or took a lead on the exams in any way shape or form.

He's just a career politician who backed the wrong horse in Theresa May against Johnson and simply kept on by BJ because he's had experienced in government office.

Yes I’m well aware of Williamson’s history thanks, always come across as a weasel to me (like Liz Truss or Nicky Morgan) no values of his own, will swing whichever way will keep him in power - just my impression of course.

Not sure why any of that means he isn’t part of policy making though. Essentially he leads and managers the civil servants at his disposal - are you suggesting Johnson is so incompetent he’d ignore the guidance of the department headed by Williamson and go his own way?

Not saying your wrong - just seems like a massive pivot for you to be arguing this angle.

Just in case you needed reminding:- we were given plenty of prior warnng as to what sort of person Johnson is thanks to Eddie Mair. Essential viewing!!