Coronavirus - the political argument

Yes Nat you have made your point but now it is you who is just being tedious.

Are you making a statement of some sort Nat, or have you fallen asleep on your keyboard ? 

It's simply the same posters making the same point over and over again.

The government may or may not have acted too slowly, but the point has been made. We get it.

It's the same as Bolton fans moaning about the Nathan Blake "goal" against Everton.

It’s a thread debating the political response and how that’s impacted the crisis. Obviously their speed of response is going to be the key talking point. I don't
see what the issue is.

If you have a different angle to discuss then post it, but don’t knock people for posting when there are only about 5 left.

I'm with you Nat. A different shade of the same thing doesn't really make any difference other than to fill space on here.
Its like these daily updates. Cut all the repetition and crap and we will all take notice of the valuable 10 minutes of info. Also, stop the bloody journalists dragging the smallest point out for ages. We know they have to fill their column inches or TV report, but its just absurd at times.
I've taken to watching Euronews as well. It has no axe to grind and gives you a better view of the overall situation, (mostly)

gloswhite wrote:I'm with you Nat. A different shade of the same thing doesn't really make any difference other than to fill space on here.
Its like these daily updates. Cut all the repetition and crap and we will all take notice of the valuable 10 minutes of info. Also, stop the bloody journalists dragging the smallest point out for ages. We know they have to fill their column inches or TV report, but its just absurd at times.
I've taken to watching Euronews as well. It has no axe to grind and gives you a better view of the overall situation, (mostly)

Broadly agree with all that Glos and it echo's what I've been saying from the outset that holding to account/point scoring/call it what you will has never been there solely to find the truth but largely to stir the shit, at a time when the shit needs stirring the least.

It should be abundantly clear by all by now that we weren't prepared for the tsunami that swept over us (and most nearly all the other country's too don't forget - even superpower nations like the USA and Russia had been calling out for ventilators and PPE's) and underestimated the speed of it - by dramatically changing policy from herd to containment within just four days from one to the other.

Did people honestly believe the government deliberately intended to do the worst possible things - and kill all these people - on purpose???

Why on earth would they do that - what could they possibly gain from doing so?

They done no worse or no better than any government would have done in the circumstances they found themselves and IF they deliberately robbed Peter (care homes) to pay Paul (the NHS) in order to cope and save as many lives as possible - would anybody have done any different given such as stark choice? I've already said on here if there was only one ventilator and two people who needed it, say an old fart like me with other health issues and say a 34 year old business woman from Preston with most of her life in front of her, I could full understand what the outcome would be, even if it meant the worst for me.

What's the point daily crucifying the government when they simply can't just magic up out of thin air all the PPE's and tests required right there and then, nor even for the next day/week/month?

Don't people think they would do in an instant if at all possible?

I really don't think many of the media daily questions have helped at all and some (like Peston) seemed to be seeking to put the knife in to, presumably, make themselves look clever or informed or some such?

(I had a great deal of time and respect for Peston during the financial crisis some years back but it seems he desperate to regain the limelight again and instead just made himself look a self seeking egotist to me this time around. Clearly he knows his economics and should just stick with that rather than 'play' political point scoring/scrutinising which clearly he's been trying to do).

How hard for the media to understand that the government - no government - have got the answers to the virus - all they can do is to keep as many people safe from it the best they can and at the same time try restart the economy and keep the country/world from plunging into a great recession and the hunger and 'food marches' that haven't been seen here in our lifetimes.

Am I being over dramatic - possibly, but that's clearly why Trump is desperate to get the USA back to work and places like Brazil too whose own President is trying to deny the virus is even a problem!

Two sayings spring to mind - 'Money talks' and 'life is cheap'.

We've got a long way to go yet the media/politicians squabbling over trivial stuff whilst the virus is still about brings to my mind another saying about them 'fiddling' whilst 'Rome is burning'.

Keep safe everyone.

Sluffy wrote:

gloswhite wrote:I'm with you Nat. A different shade of the same thing doesn't really make any difference other than to fill space on here.
Its like these daily updates. Cut all the repetition and crap and we will all take notice of the valuable 10 minutes of info. Also, stop the bloody journalists dragging the smallest point out for ages. We know they have to fill their column inches or TV report, but its just absurd at times.
I've taken to watching Euronews as well. It has no axe to grind and gives you a better view of the overall situation, (mostly)

Broadly agree with all that Glos and it echo's what I've been saying from the outset that holding to account/point scoring/call it what you will has never been there solely to find the truth but largely to stir the shit, at a time when the shit needs stirring the least.

It should be abundantly clear by all by now that we weren't prepared for the tsunami that swept over us (and most nearly all the other country's too don't forget - even superpower nations like the USA and Russia had been calling out for ventilators and PPE's) and underestimated the speed of it - by dramatically changing policy from herd to containment within just four days from one to the other.

Did people honestly believe the government deliberately intended to do the worst possible things - and kill all these people - on purpose???

Why on earth would they do that - what could they possibly gain from doing so?

They done no worse or no better than any government would have done in the circumstances they found themselves and IF they deliberately robbed Peter (care homes) to pay Paul (the NHS) in order to cope and save as many lives as possible - would anybody have done any different given such as stark choice?  I've already said on here if there was only one ventilator and two people who needed it, say an old fart like me with other health issues and say a 34 year old business woman from Preston with most of her life in front of her, I could full understand what the outcome would be, even if it meant the worst for me.

What's the point daily crucifying the government when they simply can't just magic up out of thin air all the PPE's and tests required right there and then, nor even for the next day/week/month?

Don't people think they would do in an instant if at all possible?

I really don't think many of the media daily questions have helped at all and some (like Peston) seemed to be seeking to put the knife in to, presumably, make themselves look clever or informed or some such?

(I had a great deal of time and respect for Peston during the financial crisis some years back but it seems he desperate to regain the limelight again and instead just made himself look a self seeking egotist to me this time around.  Clearly he knows his economics and should just stick with that rather than 'play' political point scoring/scrutinising which clearly he's been trying to do).

How hard for the media to understand that the government - no government - have got the answers to the virus - all they can do is to keep as many people safe from it the best they can and at the same time try restart the economy and keep the country/world from plunging into a great recession and the hunger and 'food marches' that haven't been seen here in our lifetimes.

Am I being over dramatic - possibly, but that's clearly why Trump is desperate to get the USA back to work and places like Brazil too whose own President is trying to deny the virus is even a problem!

Two sayings spring to mind - 'Money talks' and 'life is cheap'.

We've got a long way to go yet the media/politicians squabbling over trivial stuff whilst the virus is still about brings to my mind another saying about them 'fiddling' whilst 'Rome is burning'.

Keep safe everyone.

Bozo the clown on our side of the pond has viewed his re-election in shambles, falling 9 pts behind his presumed opponent.  Everything he does is about political gain and money.  The latin term quid pro quo has become quid pro trump!  Human lives are meaningless to him.  Listen to the scientists, not the politicians.

Natasha Whittam wrote:It's simply the same posters making the same point over and over again.

The government may or may not have acted too slowly, but the point has been made. We get it.

It's the same as Bolton fans moaning about the Nathan Blake "goal" against Everton.

Just like the government you get facts wrong !! it was Gerry Taggart whos goal was disallowed.

wessy wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:It's simply the same posters making the same point over and over again.

The government may or may not have acted too slowly, but the point has been made. We get it.

It's the same as Bolton fans moaning about the Nathan Blake "goal" against Everton.

Just like the government you get facts wrong !! it was Gerry Taggart whos goal was disallowed.

No, it was definitely Nathan Blake, I don't see this Gerry Taggart fella in the photo.

Natasha Whittam wrote:No, it was definitely Nathan Blake, I don't see this Gerry Taggart fella in the photo.

You handle facts just like this government.

No one knows more than me about BWFC.

Saying journalists shouldn’t be scrutinising the government is the type of thing I’d expect to read in North Korea. 

Also ‘They done no worse or no better than any government would have done in the circumstances they found themselves’.

So abandoning track and trace early, allowing stockpile of PPE to be sold off/45% of remaining out of date and useless/buying incorrect stock from Turkey/not locking down early enough - are all mistakes any government would have made?

Can you not just accept mistakes have been made and move on?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Saying journalists shouldn’t be scrutinising the government is the type of thing I’d expect to read in North Korea. 

Also ‘They done no worse or no better than any government would have done in the circumstances they found themselves’.

So abandoning track and trace early, allowing stockpile of PPE to be sold off/45% of remaining out of date and useless/buying incorrect stock from Turkey/not locking down early enough - are all mistakes any government would have made?

Can you not just accept mistakes have been made and move on?

Here we go again!!!

I've never once claimed that no mistakes have been made - absolutely nobody could deal with such an overwhelming and fast moving pandemic perfectly.

All anyone can do is to fight the virus with the tools they have and the systems that were in place at the time it struck.

Also - and this is a key point that you don't seem to recognise - they can only base their decisions on the information they had at that time.

Bad or false information leads to bad decisions being taken and I've pointed out previously in this thread about what the Chinese had told the world about coronavirus, namely it was slow to spread and had a low mortality rate - clear that certainly wasn't/isn't true.

The government clearly initially acted accordingly to that information - herd immunity - no requirement to 'track and trace' that being the case - and thus were completely on the wrongfoot when within just four days the true extent of what the virus was doing came to light when Italy's healthcare service was overwhelmed and swamped.

No country in the world had sufficient PPE's and ventilators in stock - even China - we and several other country's sent supplies to them initially - and all of them have been competing against each other since to get more PPE's for their own country's needs. Even the EU admits and has apologised to Italy when they turned their backs on them and hung them out to dry, whilst holding on to their stocks for what was about to hit their country further down the line.

Substandard PPE's have been prevalent since unfortunately and some of the stuff we got from Turkey doesn't seem to have met the specification that was given to them - I don't know how you could possibly lay the blame at the government's feet for that one? Is everything you ever bought been perfect and if it wasn't is that your fault???

As for your remark about 'North Korea' clearly aimed at trolling once again!

There's nothing wrong with a free press but it doesn't mean the standard of journalism is high throughout nor the stuff they report on is to solely ' seek and inform' or rather to be with the aim of 'clickbait' to be 'sensational' in order to get people to buy their papers/view their channels (in order to attract people towards the adverts on them that basically funds them and keeps them in a job).

Natasha Whittam wrote:No one knows more than me about BWFC.

Excellent Donald Trump impression.

xmiles wrote:Excellent Donald Trump impression.

I think that's the first compliment you've ever sent my way.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:Excellent Donald Trump impression.

I think that's the first compliment you've ever sent my way.