Trump v May

Syria ?

Okocha, I'm speaking about comments in the media as well as friends views.
I realise you are a great admirer of them, but I really don't feel they are as wonderful as you do, sorry. I'm not a tub-thumping racist, but couldn't help but notice the views of others, although I would admit to possibly noticing items in a negative manner, whereas you would possibly put a positive outlook on them. Such is life I'm afraid.

gloswhite wrote:Syria ?

Care to elaborate?

If the Americans had sent ground forces into Syria what would they achieve? The overthrow of Assad and his replacement by what? ISIS? And how many thousands would be killed or injured?

Iraq shows what happens when the Americans intervene.

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:Syria ?

Care to elaborate?

If the Americans had sent ground forces into Syria what would they achieve? The overthrow of Assad and his replacement by what? ISIS? And how many thousands would be killed or injured?

Iraq shows what happens when the Americans intervene.

So your view is not to intervene in anything?

I don't believe  sending in ground forces is the first option. His negotiating strategy was non-existent. He literally withdrew from all of it, and left an awful lot of people in the mire. Nobody knows how things would have developed had they remained in the various processes, however, we do know what happened when they sat on the fence.

My objection to intervening in Syria is that the argument for it was based on the assumption that overthrowing Assad was a good thing but there was no understanding of what would replace him. In many ways it was the same stupidity that led to the overthrow of Saddam in Iraq. He was an evil dictator but the average Iraqi was almost certainly better off under him than they are even now. There was zero Islamic fundamentalism and it was a comparatively secularised society.

Assad is bad but the realistic alternatives are all far far worse. The Americans wasted billions of dollars arming so called democratic forces only to find that all but five (!) individuals had handed their weapons to extremist groups and many had joined these groups themselves.

As for negotiating with ISIS good luck with that.

All fair points XM, but I still feel that Obama pulled out too soon, and abandoned many people to, at least, a miserable life, with far too many actually losing theirs. I also feel that ISIS would not have been as strong as they are, had they had a better organised opposition, and as I say they, along with the Russians, (for different reasons), must have been rubbing their hands in joy, when they realised what was happening.
You'll not change my view that he was a weak President, who through his deliberate inaction, allowed the area to spiral out of control, with suffering for millions. 
We now have a President, who, for a different set of reasons, may continue to stand back from the problem, preferring a relatively isolationist approach. (Although I wouldn't be surprised to see him impeached on one of many issues). Even so, I still regard the current, or even things to come, as a result of weak policies of Obama.

Just look at the preening ponce.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40050926/trump-pushes-past-montenegro-s-pm

The way he, Trump, juts his jaw forward for the photoshoot and the 1,000 yard stare coupled with the World War 2 "Okay" sign with his hand. Thumb and forefinger circled and remaining fingers extended  is used in the US diving manual to indicate "I am okay" but also as a general gesture, and as we all know, Don veered round any chance he had to do military service. And now pops up as Commander in Chief of US forces.
Doubt they'll impeach him, though he may be advised to stand down. Then to replace him really is going to be a Gordian Knot. Be a slap in the face with a wet fish if McCain got the job.

It seems it's thankfully still not cool to suggest that we need to devise a "final solution" to deal with the "Muslim problem" after all...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40057165

Good. Fucking horrible bitch.

Also, in other Racist Fear Mongers Getting Sacked News, it appears that Hannity is trying to pass off his sudden disappearance from the airwaves at Fox as nothing more than his annual Memorial Day Weekend holiday starting early.

Very early....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40050203

Again....good.

Now then....if we could just do something about this other despicable wanker:

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/23/alex-jones-right-wing-media-wastes-no-time-politicizing-manchester-bombing/

Bread2.0 wrote:Now then....if we could just do something about this other despicable wanker:

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/23/alex-jones-right-wing-media-wastes-no-time-politicizing-manchester-bombing/

I clicked the link expecting a selfie.

Knob...

Trump barging the Montenegran President out of the way hilarious - as was Macron's "handshake" with the Donut.

I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

Whether or not our aggressive actions were justified we'll never know (although personally I was against the wars and saw it as kowtowing to the Americans) however we all knew in advance what the likely consequences of our aggression would be.

The money we have wasted on wars and the human and financial cost of dealing with the fallout could have been better spent on services IMO.

wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Hardly as though France and Spain have been major players in those countries unlike us.

Similarly Russia who - actually invaded Afghanistan and are a major player in Syria - have had no major terrorist incidents from Muslims apart from the Chechens who were seeking independence?

The bottom line is that one culture is religion based and wants to live in live in a world that adheres to their beliefs and the rest doesn't.

If people on both sides could be tolerant of each other then we could all live in peace - unfortunately there are extremists on both sides who don't want that.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Hardly as though France and Spain have been major players in those countries unlike us.

Similarly Russia who - actually invaded Afghanistan and are a major player in Syria - have had no major terrorist incidents from Muslims apart from the Chechens who were seeking independence?

The bottom line is that one culture is religion based and wants to live in a world that adheres to their beliefs and the rest doesn't.

If people on both sides could be tolerant of each other then we could all live in peace - unfortunately there are extremists on both sides who don't want that.

I quite agree.

boltonbonce wrote:Just look at the preening ponce.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40050926/trump-pushes-past-montenegro-s-pm

What's curious about this is that it represents much of the Trump clan. Melania (is that what she's called) looks like a brain dead bimbo, even the clothes she wears make her look like a robot. She's clearly under strict instructions to keep her gob shut
Ivanka is strange looking- her heads too small  and she too looks like a Stepford wife.. Her heads reminds me of a silverskin pickled onion.
Jared ( what sort of name is that? ) looks utterly corrupt. He looks at the camera saying: 'go on, prove I'm guilty'.
Despite the vast amounts that they clearly spend on clothes they look like they belong in a cheap clothing catalogue

Its good to see that nepotism isn't dead yet.

rammywhite wrote:Melania (is that what she's called) looks like a brain dead bimbo, even the clothes she wears make her look like a robot. She's clearly under strict instructions to keep her gob shut
Ivanka is strange looking- her heads too small  and she too looks like a Stepford wife.. Her heads reminds me of a silverskin pickled onion.
Jared ( what sort of name is that? ) looks utterly corrupt. He looks at the camera saying: 'go on, prove I'm guilty'.
Despite the vast amounts that they clearly spend on clothes they look like they belong in a cheap clothing catalogue

Listen to Mr Adonis!

Post a photo and I'll see if your head reminds me of a pumpkin.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Dunno. If he'd been with me instead of being on the radio I'd have asked him.

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Dunno. If he'd been with me instead of being on the radio I'd have asked him.

I heard a comment that most experts (whoever they are), subscribe to the view that our foreign policy has not helped us, but it isn't the absolute cause of the attacks.