How is the Tory Government Doing?

The obvious pick out of a bad bunch to replace Johnson was Rishi.

He was miles ahead from the start and Truss simply wasn't showing in the MP numbers supporting her - indeed Penny Mordaunt was well clear of her and second to Rishi before the clear 'stop Rishi' campaign kicked off and got behind Truss as they believed she would do better than Mordaunt in a head-to-head with Rushi to become leader.

Unfortunately, this is how the system works - it wasn't who was best for the job (out of the two of them) but rather anyone but Rishi (presumably because the view was that he was clearly trying to undermine and bring down Johnson?) and Truss was seen as the best candidate to stop him (and not the best candidate for becoming PM).

It would all be funny if it didn't affect us all, unfortunately it does.

wanderlust wrote:We know the Tories are corrupt and we know that corporations will exert influence on them - the recent Cameron and Paterson cases for example - and we know that as soon as the Tories got us out of the EU they voted down the offshore holdings tax bill, reduced corporation tax and refused to properly tax the resident oligarchs and their dodgy London registered companies. We know the role that corporates played in Brexit and we know they profited massively from it. Are the billions made in the immediate aftermath of government decisions just coincidence - even though the Tories were giving private audiences for hedge funders, corporates and/or their lobbyists in advance?
We know for a fact who the winners and losers are.
Sadly, the losers are the British people and all the evidence points to government corruption at our expense.

And I'll be more inclined to believe that until anyone can prove it's not happening.

It's all the Tories fault for everything with you isn't it?

We know that SOME 'people' are corrupt - Labour politicians as well you know - Blair took us to war on a lie, Mandelson resigned twice as a Minister for dodgy dealings, the Lib Dem's Chris Huhne who was at the time a Minister in the Coalition government was actually jailed for perjury.

But not all Torries are corrupt, and not all non-Tories are honest - don't you understand that?

Corporations do exert pressure on all governments - why do you think Tony Blair flew halfway around the world to get Murdoch's support in 1997 and the price he paid for his support???

A new BBC documentary on media mogul Rupert Murdoch has provided new insight on his “almost incestuous” relationship with Tony Blair.
https://pressgazette.co.uk/rupert-murdoch-documentary-rise-of-dynasty-bbc-tony-blair/

The Tory party was given the mandate to govern by the electorate - The Conservative Party have won the last FOUR General Elections - they vote down Labour bills - and when Labour are in power they vote down Tory bills - that's how democracy works.

In power Labour vote through the things they want to achieve and repeal Acts of Parliament they don't like - there's absolutely nothing sinister in Tory governments doing the same.

Corporations do speculate on the stock market and make millions (sometimes lose them too!) but that isn't illegal (unless they have insider information). How many people actually thought that Brexit would win???

How the pollsters got it wrong on the EU referendum
It was a bad night for the opinion polls, with few predicting the 52:48 split in favour of leave
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/how-eu-referendum-pollsters-wrong-opinion-predict-close

Not that many...

...yet you bang on, and on, and on, as though the big corporations fixed things so they could make a killing.

No they didn't - they couldn't fix the Referendum, no one could.

In fact nearly everyone thought Brexit would lose!

Yes, Russian money has been washed on London property, the rules have clearly been too lax.  The stable door is being closed now but too late - and if Labour had been in power do you really think they would have blocked all this money flowing into the UK from Russia at that time..?

I don't.

Yes, corporations use the stock exchanges to speculate on things like currency fluctuations - that's what they do.

I could have told you before the mini budget that massive tax cuts and no steps to balance the budget by borrowing (the government are not going to find anything like £6 billion from cuts in services) would lead to a loss of confidence in the pound - this is Janet and John level economics - and don't forget Truss set her stall out to get elected leader on the basis of massive and urgent tax cuts AND said how she detested how much borrowing Rishi had done.

So, no need for anyone to have these so-called imaginary tip offs before the event - everyone (but you apparently) would know what the effect of tax cuts and no additional borrowing would be.

What else did you think the mini budget was going to deliver???

Christ even Rishi told us what would happen TWO MONTHS AGO!!!

Rishi Sunak attacks Truss tax cut plan
Sunak, the underdog in the leadership race, has repeatedly said throughout the contest that he would wait until inflation was under control, BEFORE embarking on a tax-cutting spree.

By contrast, Truss has promised £30bn worth of tax cuts, which Sunak has claimed would push up borrowing and boost inflation.

“The Bank has acted today and it is imperative that any future government grips inflation, not exacerbates it,” he said.

“Increasing borrowing will put upward pressure on interest rates, which will mean increased payments on people’s mortgages. It will also make high inflation and high prices last for longer, making everyone poorer.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/04/liz-truss-review-bank-of-england-mandate-says-tory-ally

Yes, under Truss's economic model the rich will get richer and the poor, poorer but that isn't due to corruption or some secret cabal pulling the strings of the country's Prime Minister, it is all to do with payback to those Conservative members who voted for her and the manifesto she stood on.

Feel free to believe in loony conspiracies but don't throw your toys out of your pram (and pathetically snitching to Karly...) when people like me laugh at you for it!

Tory competence, honesty and decision-making have been diabolical for the last 12 years.

okocha wrote:Tory competence, honesty and decision-making have been diabolical for the last 12 years.

If it is so bad, then why has the country re-elected them at the last THREE General Elections?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/09/29/voting-intention-con-21-lab-54-28-29-sep-2022

Latest poll this evening:   Labour 54%   Tories 21%

Deservedly so too I would say after Johnson's abysmal behaviour and Truss looking as useless as a chocolate tea pot.

They even make Kier look electable at the moment!

Long, long way to go before the next election so let Starmer and co have their moment because it won’t last and once again they’ll be seen through for what they really are. Truss will ignore the outside noise and push through her plans and once this initial angst is over MPs will fall in behind her and so will the country.

Whitesince63 wrote: Truss will ignore the outside noise and push through her plans and once this initial angst is over MPs will fall in behind her and so will the country.

Labour's incredible (albeit short term) 33% lead in the polls seems to have woken her up  - she and Kamikase have finally agreed to meet with Richard Hughes despite having suppressed the OBR forecast.*
The Treasury Select Commitee suggested that the absence of the OBR forecast contributed to the market turmoil and are demanding it's published immediately.

* Traditionally the OBR forecast is used at every budget but was ignored on this occasion giving rise to suspicion.

Sluffy wrote:

If it is so bad, then why has the country re-elected them at the last THREE General Elections?

Because of the rise of populist nationalism driven through the Tory media and online disinformation campaigns such as Brexit. Haven't you been following the news?

How many times do I have to explain it to you?

This made me laugh;

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

If it is so bad, then why has the country re-elected them at the last THREE General Elections?

Because of the rise of populist nationalism driven through the Tory media and online disinformation campaigns such as Brexit. Haven't you been following the news?

How many times do I have to explain it to you?

Explaining to me YOUR warped and twisted view of the world is not helpful to me in the slightest, thank you.

And if people are somehow zombified in to believing "the rise of populist nationalism driven through the Tory media and online disinformation campaigns such as Brexit", then how do you explain this...

okocha wrote:https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/09/29/voting-intention-con-21-lab-54-28-29-sep-2022

Latest poll this evening:   Labour 54%   Tories 21%

...when of course the public have all been zombified in to believing "the rise of populist nationalism driven through the Tory media and online disinformation campaigns such as Brexit"

You can't have it both ways mate - they are either zombified or they aren't...!

A poll only takes an analysis of feelings at that moment. There are two years to go until the next election, polls will change back and forth before then but the only poll that really matters is the GE itself and the government have more than enough time to get back on track before then. Labour would just continue the “hand out” society the country’s become used to so let’s hope Liz and Kwasi don’t weaken on this and push the necessary changes through.

Whitesince63 wrote:A poll only takes an analysis of feelings at that moment. There are two years to go until the next election, polls will change back and forth before then but the only poll that really matters is the GE itself and the government have more than enough time to get back on track before then. Labour would just continue the “hand out” society the country’s become used to so let’s hope Liz and Kwasi don’t weaken on this and push the necessary changes through.

It's true - it's only a snapshot in time - but I think the takeaways are:

1. The situation has got to both lifelong and temporary Tories. Only 39% of those who voted Tory in 2019 said they would if the election was now. Obviously lots of the lifelong Tories will drift back into the fold if Truss and Kwarteng manage to rescue any degree of respectability but the seeds of doubt have been planted so there will be repercussions for the next election - even if Labour continue to fail to drive home the advantage.
2. Public attitudes across all parties are very much in favour of maintaining public services at the moment and there's an increasing awareness that the so-called "hand outs" are relatively insignificant in the scheme of things - whereas previously Tories had an "I'm all right Jack/the poor are lazy scroungers" approach. Now the electorate is starting to become more fiscally aware about our world of paper (now digital) money and that may have a lasting impression on opinion. Moreover, Truss is clearly not listening - which is a schoolboy error for a populist.

We'll see. A year ago you were confidently predicting "Boris isn't going anywhere" and look how that panned out...

Ha, I think many Tory’s are now wishing they had stuck with Boris after all Lusty. I personally believe that he could have turned it around despite reneging on manifesto promises made but we’ll never know now will we? I think voters are as fickle as footy fans and quick to change their minds depending on how things are at the time which is why I’m not overly worried about where we are now. A lot of what’s been stated since the mini budget is false and it’s as if people were surprised at the markets reaction. I wasn’t the market hates unpredictability and that’s exactly what it caused until the BoE settled things down.

Of course we’re getting all the usual worms coming out having their two penneth, like Mark Carnage and the plebs at the IMF who let’s be honest, never get anything right. My problem is that the MSM just love to have a pop telling everybody how bad it is yet never mentioning how much worse it is elsewhere. Just this morning the ECB has come out and identified how bad things are in the EU and Germanys inflation rate is now 10.9% and they’re having to launch a €200m euro bail out but I haven’t heard anything from the BBC or Sly about it. Have you? There’s been a media witch h7nt on the Tory’s since they got after Boris and this is just a follow on with Liz but hopefully she’ll stick to her guns and it will pass. By the time of the GE the complexion could be completely different but it could also be much worse. I believe it’s time for the actions the governments taking and once people see the logic they’ll calm down. It could easily backfire on Labour yet so don’t count your chickens Lusty. As they say, the thoroughbreds come through at the end!!

There are so many variables. Today the Telegraph is running a story about Tory rebels seeking to stop the cut on the 45% rate as it delivers so little fiscally but is disastrous politically. Then there's the rise in the popularity of introducing a PR electoral system so that every person's vote has the same value as the next man i.e. proper democracy. Can't see the Tories letting that through but if they lose the next election to e.g. a Lib/Lab pact it might go through which would change the political landscape forever.
BTW - as mentioned on here years ago - I'm not a Labour voter. That would be a pointless exercise where I live.

On a lighter note this week on a BBC phone in the presenter trying to understand the mini budget took advice from one of his guests to critic the Budget, i nearly fell off the couch when the guest turned out to be the bloke out of the Krankies.

Whitesince63 wrote:Long, long way to go before the next election so let Starmer and co have their moment because it won’t last and once again they’ll be seen through for what they really are. Truss will ignore the outside noise and push through her plans and once this initial angst is over MPs will fall in behind her and so will the country.

That's a relief well said "Whites" was getting nervous But seeing you got EVERY call wrong about Boris, i can sleep easy tonight.

If i had my way i would tax anyone who voted for Truss for inflicting this shower of sh-- on to the rest of the country.

wessy wrote:On a lighter note this week on a BBC phone in the presenter trying to understand the mini budget took advice from one of his guests to critic the Budget, i nearly fell off the couch when the guest turned out to be the bloke out of the Krankies.

You might laugh Wessy, but with this circus running the country for the last few years it somehow seems appropriate.

Jesus W63, if Thick Lizzy and Kami Quazi are the thoroughbreds the Conservative party are relying on to pull them through in the end, your party must be in an absolutely desperate state (and they are). The Labour party is very adept at shooting itself in the foot and sure as eggs is eggs they will do their very best to fuck things up before the next GE, but the Conservative party is politically and morally bankrupt, and after this week's fiasco that's become painfully obvious to most right thinking people who have even a passing interest in politics.
I listened today to each of our glorious new PM's radio broadcasts with BBC local radio stations and it was truly jaw dropping. How the hell has this happened? She's not even fit to be an MP let alone the PM.
All of these tame local journalists grabbed their 15 minutes of fame with zeal and enthusiasm and made her look like the incompetent idiot she is. How in God's name will she cope if the likes of Andrew Marr or Andrew Neill are set loose on her. The predictable answer of course is that will never be allowed to happen.

This Led by Donkeys comment on the budget contextualises how many fire stations, schools etc Kwarteng has cost the country - including fully funding Sir Marcus Rashford's thing and helping the NHS. Keep scrolling right....

• Average house price
  
• Nurses’ pay
  
• Running a primary school
  
• Building a hospital
  
• Public libraries
  
• £1bn to 2500 people
  
• New fire station
  
• Marcus Rashford campaign
  
• Museums and galleries
  
• NHS Ambulance costs
  
• Sir Charles Bean
  
• UK military aid to Ukraine
  
• UK Space Programme