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How is the Tory Government Doing?

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Sluffy
Norpig
Cajunboy
gloswhite
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boltonbonce
karlypants
Natasha Whittam
finlaymcdanger
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wessy
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wanderlust
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81How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Tue Sep 27 2022, 11:23

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Kwarteng cuts Stamp Duty "to help first time buyers" LOL

Mortgage lenders stop issuing new mortgages.

Even "borrow like there's no tomorrow" Sunak warned him.

It's class war.

82How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Tue Sep 27 2022, 12:10

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Bank of England and the Treasury statements to the effect that they won't hesitate to raise interest rates has gone some way towards stabilising the £ this morning. Still well down but at least it's not still falling.

83How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Wed Sep 28 2022, 11:56

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Wow - after the biggest drop of mortgage products in history - over 1000 were withdrawn overnight - and the IMF warning, the Bank of England has stepped in to prop up UK government bonds.

Interest rates are still expected to rise in November, but the BoE intervention should stem the haemorrhaging for now.

Calls in the media for Truss and Kamikaze to make a public explanation of exactly how their budget measures will increase productivity etc in order to attempt to restore market confidence.

84How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Wed Sep 28 2022, 15:47

Ten Bobsworth


Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Ten Bobsworth wrote:HMRC opened up investigations into 270 professional footballers in the last year. It may be a crackdown but its unlikely to yield anywhere near as much as Kwasi Kwarteng gave away on Friday.

I estimate that the top ten highest paid Man U players will save an average of £750K each p.a. when the 45% tax band is abolished (plus the corporation tax saving on the extras).

https://www.uhy-uk.com/insights/hmrc-opens-tax-investigations-270-footballers-year-crackdown-sport-intensifies

You heard it here first. Better late than never but who tipped off Maguire K?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11258471/Cristiano-Ronaldo-extra-1-3m-tax-cuts-average-flight-pay-going-240k.html

They aren't going to keep it though, are they? Ask Red Nev; the charitable souls are going to give it away to charities of their choice.

Good news for the National Hairdressers Federation

85How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Wed Sep 28 2022, 17:28

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I'm guessing the BoE had no choice.

Govt bonds (gilts) are seen as the safest of investments - effectively lending money to the government in the safe knowledge they are going to be able to pay it back so a lot of pension funds stick a fair bit into gilts. But because the market has no confidence in Truss and Kwarteng's "plan" - or wishful thinking - that the UK will achieve the growth required to pay of their borrowing through their fiscal policy, nobody wants to buy this government's debt - so the price/value of gilts fell.

The knock on effect is that the balance sheet of organisations that have invested in gilts plummeted overnight and the spectre of pension funds going bankrupt forced the BoE's hand.

So now we have a situation where the Bank of England is buying the British Government's debt.

This will prop up the price/value of gilts and we can only hope that the market will respond fully and get back on board.

Realistically, the only way to fully achieve that is for Truss and Kwarteng to find some form of words to convince investors that their "plans" have a chance of working - either that or do a U turn and renege on their own budget.

They'll never admit they were wrong IMO so we need to pray the BoE has done enough to save the economy.

86How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Wed Sep 28 2022, 20:07

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Could everyone please check your fridge, Liz Truss must be somewhere. Very Happy Very Happy

87How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 01:01

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

wessy wrote:Could everyone please check your fridge, Liz Truss must be somewhere. Very Happy Very Happy

(Independent)
...............
Liz Truss was accused of hiding away while her tax giveaway mini-Budget caused economic turmoil, with the Bank of England forced to intervene to prevent a crisis in the UK’s major pension funds.
The Bank embarked on an estimated £65bn buy-up of bonds amid what a Treasury source described to The Independent as “serious concerns about the short-term financial stability of some of the major pension funds in the UK” and others said there were fears of mass insolvencies.

Junior Treasury minister Andrew Griffith was sent out to insist that the government would press ahead with the £45bn of unfunded tax cuts in Kwasi Kwarteng’s mini-Budget, which spooked markets when it was unveiled on Friday.

But there was no sign of Ms Truss, who was last seen in public sitting on the green Commons benches alongside her chancellor for his statement.
The Bank’s intervention to calm volatile gilt markets came after the International Monetary Fund took the extraordinary step of urging the chancellor to “re-evaluate” his plans and warning they would stoke inequality.

Tory MPs said the mini-Budget had turned into a “disaster” which could cost Ms Truss the next election. One former minister told The Independent that Mr Kwarteng may be forced into a humiliating backtrack on his cut to the 45p income tax rate for high earners if it becomes clear the UK has been propelled onto a “doom path”.

Senior backbencher Simon Hoare branded the package “inept madness”, while former chancellor Kenneth Clarke said it was a “serious mistake” which should be “torn up”. MPs questioned the safety of Mr Kwarteng’s position just three weeks after his appointment, with one telling Sky News: “I predict the chancellor will get the sack and it will unravel from there.”


.........


How may days have they been in the job?

88How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 01:32

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Fwiw I did state on here that Rishi was the least worst choice between him and Truss because at least his economic policies had sense to them whilst Truss's were political ideology rhetoric to gain her leadership votes.

And fwiw also, I think the scrapping of the 45% tax rate is something of a political red herring in the sense that it only applies to those who earn over £150k per year and the tax revenue it actually raises is not really that great (if you are earning £150k or more a year you have tax advisors who tell you what to do legally with your money to minimise what tax you pay on it!).

The reason why it is trotted out by Labour and the press is more to do with the 'image' of the fat cats getting fatter, when the truth is really that the fat cats are mostly already 'avoiding' the 45% tax in the first place anyway.

89How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 02:09

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Remember Crispin Odey?
The former son in law of Rupert Murdoch?
The guy whose hedge fund was set up with investment from none other than George Soros?
The guy who got a private audience with Blojo the day after he became leader of the Tories?
The guy who made hundreds of millions on Brexit?
The guy whose company financed the setting up of Jacob Rees Mogg's company?
The guy who was Kwarteng's boss?

You may remember I mentioned him as one of the players behind the Brexit scam

Anyway, he's decided to comment on Truss's budget....

"While the government has cut taxes and removed the bankers’ bonus cap in the hope of heating up the economy, the Bank of England is raising rates in order to cool it. In this, it is only doing its job, which is to keep inflation down to below two per cent. This means the government is turning up the nation’s economic thermostat at the same time as the bank is trying to turn it down.

But these policy contradictions do not seem to worry people such as the hedge fund manager Crispin Odey. He is a vigorous supporter of the Conservative Party and also of Brexit. Odey’s hedge fund spawned Jacob Rees-Mogg’s own financial operation. Kwasi Kwarteng is a former employee of Odey Asset Management.

The Telegraph has reported Odey’s view that “the historic rout in the wake of Kwasi Kwarteng’s tax cuts was triggered by Remainers in the City who ‘hate’ the Government”. The currency markets, according to Odey, are an anti-Brexit conspiracy – an argument that is somewhat clouded by Odey’s admission that he himself also bet against the pound and made a killing. There is no hint that Odey sees these things as contradictory."

:wtf2:

Here he is making even more money advising the government and then betting against Britain back in 2019

90How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 10:24

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Me: wrote:Now some senior Conservatives are expressing concern that the UK economy is close to the point of no return where i.e. where all factors combine to send the economy spiralling into bankruptcy.

When Thatcher cut taxes, she cut government spending and slashed services at the same time to try to balance the books - but so far there's been no mention of cuts from this lot - surely they will be forced to do it sooner rather than later? It's two years before the next election and I'm not convinced the economy will make it until then without serious intervention.

Within three days of writing, we've had the intervention - £65 billion worth of it courtesy of the BoE to prop up government bonds. The price has stabilised a bit but it's not rising back to anywhere near where it was yet as the market sits on it's hands waiting for Truss to do a bit more than come out this morning and bleat about her policy being "the right thing to do" with absolutely no evidence to suggest it is. Perhaps they'll get around to publishing the OBR forecast - but as they buried it BEFORE the mini budget it's unlikely.

However the threat of cuts to public services is now rearing it's head as predicted.
Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris Philp, has confirmed he is asking government departments to find savings. Speaking on ITV's Peston, Mr Philp said government departments are being asked to "look for efficiencies wherever they can find them".

So watch out folks. Somewhere in the cloud of smoke and mirrors cutbacks are coming - even though they won't be announced for what they are and even if they admit they are making them there'll be an excuse and a scapegoat.

Thatcher bailed herself out by selling off national assets to foreigners, privatisations and cutting services. If Truss is trying to reinvent Thatcherism she needs to realise that national assets can only be sold off once - when they're gone they're gone*
Similarly you can only cut public services so far before the tree dies.

* Apart from Thatcher's privatisation of the railways to form Railtrack, that went into administration and had to be re-nationalised and then was again carved up and sold off for a second time - all at a cost to the country many times greater than the original operational losses of British Rail - but of course many individuals made a killing on it.

91How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 10:51

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

🥱🥱🥱

92How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 11:15

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:Fwiw I did state on here that Rishi was the least worst choice between him and Truss because at least his economic policies had sense to them whilst Truss's were political ideology rhetoric to gain her leadership votes.

And fwiw also, I think the scrapping of the 45% tax rate is something of a political red herring in the sense that it only applies to those who earn over £150k per year and the tax revenue it actually raises is not really that great (if you are earning £150k or more a year you have tax advisors who tell you what to do legally with your money to minimise what tax you pay on it!).

The reason why it is trotted out by Labour and the press is more to do with the 'image' of the fat cats getting fatter, when the truth is really that the fat cats are mostly already 'avoiding' the 45% tax in the first place anyway.
Totally agree with your opening statement they had a potential safe pair of hands in Sunak. But the party know best and elected a PM that looks totally lacking in ability.

For me it's the lack of fairness that makes these cuts unpalatable, of course we want to see the economy grow that would be the same for any government, but this is reckless.

Unfair ? well after working for 42 years i know because i have been involved in asking for a pay rise from time to time, the comeback always included a need to increase productivity, even if it was just for a small increase. 

The  top earners in the next 12 months will benefit with up to 55k for the lucky millionaires. For what, Nothing no productivity needed, a gift yes an instant hand out.

Whilst at the other end of the scale we the unworthy have to wait and hope that a gamble pays off and bakes a bigger cake that will trickle down and then we can celebrate our share whatever that is. Its sickening and the energy crisis will pale into insignificance IF mortgage rates rise, before the oven gets warm, people will be losing there homes. 

Just to show how bad it is we are at the mercy of the Drab Four Truss, Kwasi, Coffey and Mogg  FFS how bad can it get.

93How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 11:18

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:🥱🥱🥱
Not sure what that emoji signifies mate. Is it Tories jamming their fists in their mouths in horror? Smile

:pray: is the emoji that signifies my feelings at the moment.
Let's all hope the Tories see sense and the markets rally.

94How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 13:07

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wessy wrote:
Sluffy wrote:Fwiw I did state on here that Rishi was the least worst choice between him and Truss because at least his economic policies had sense to them whilst Truss's were political ideology rhetoric to gain her leadership votes.

And fwiw also, I think the scrapping of the 45% tax rate is something of a political red herring in the sense that it only applies to those who earn over £150k per year and the tax revenue it actually raises is not really that great (if you are earning £150k or more a year you have tax advisors who tell you what to do legally with your money to minimise what tax you pay on it!).

The reason why it is trotted out by Labour and the press is more to do with the 'image' of the fat cats getting fatter, when the truth is really that the fat cats are mostly already 'avoiding' the 45% tax in the first place anyway.
Totally agree with your opening statement they had a potential safe pair of hands in Sunak. But the party know best and elected a PM that looks totally lacking in ability.

For me it's the lack of fairness that makes these cuts unpalatable, of course we want to see the economy grow that would be the same for any government, but this is reckless.

Unfair ? well after working for 42 years i know because i have been involved in asking for a pay rise from time to time, the comeback always included a need to increase productivity, even if it was just for a small increase. 

The  top earners in the next 12 months will benefit with up to 55k for the lucky millionaires. For what, Nothing no productivity needed, a gift yes an instant hand out.

Whilst at the other end of the scale we the unworthy have to wait and hope that a gamble pays off and bakes a bigger cake that will trickle down and then we can celebrate our share whatever that is. Its sickening and the energy crisis will pale into insignificance IF mortgage rates rise, before the oven gets warm, people will be losing there homes. 

Just to show how bad it is we are at the mercy of the Drab Four Truss, Kwasi, Coffey and Mogg  FFS how bad can it get.

I think you (as well as many others) fall into the emotional trap of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer in respect of the headline of the 45% tax rate being scrapped.

But if I was a millionaire, do you think I would not have taken steps to reduce the amount of tax I would be paying by employing an accountant / tax advisor?

There are relatively few people who have such income that are paying their full tax burden and have not been advised of legal means to avoid doing so - and that is evidenced in how much revenue actually collected from the tax rate of 45%

So what I'm trying to say is that those relatively few who aren't tax savvy and paying their full whack will get richer from the tax reduction but the vast majority of the 'fat cats' are already legally avoiding paying at that rate simply won't gain anything from the change - as they've already structured their tax affairs not to pay at that rate in the first place.

Think of it this way, say a pint in your local pub costs £3.00 and your local paper prints unlimited vouchers with which you can buy the pint for £2.50 what would you do, go to the pub and buy them for £3.00 or take the vouchers and buy them for £2.50?

Most would take the vouchers I would say - agree?

Now a new landlord takes over the pub and reduces the price of a pint to say £2.90 but the paper still is issuing unlimited vouchers for pints at £2.50 so would the price reduction by the landlord have put money into your pocket and the pockets of everyone else legally 'avoiding' paying the full price in the first place - no it wouldn't.

So only those who haven't 'avoided' paying the full price in the first place would save themselves some money from the new landlord's price reduction and become more richer from the change in the system.

The reduction in the price of a pint (the scrapping of the 45% tax rate) won't increase your wealth (or those earning over £150k per year) if you (them) have already taken legal steps to not pay the full price for the pint - whether it be £3.00 or £2.90 (whether it be 45% tax or now at 40% tax) because you (and them) haven't been paying at that level in the first place by legally 'avoiding' doing so before the reductions were recently made.

As for Truss she has simply followed the first rule of politics - do whatever you have to, to gain power - by promising huge tax cuts to get her elected.

She obviously believes her own rhetoric and has surrounded herself with those who think the same way (remember me warning others about Confirmation bias) and this is what happens as a consequence.

95How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 14:19

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I think that the millionaires are small fry in this scenario. The real people pulling Truss's strings are the billionaire investors, offshore rich boys looking to pick up cheap deals in the carnage like those eyeing up the NHS/potential privatisations and hedge funds who've made hundreds of millions if not billions since Friday.

It's interesting that the "man on the street" tends to interpret fiscal crises in terms of the cost of living, often not considering the potential scenarios if the economy properly crashes. Politicos tend to go with the rich richer, poor poorer mantra which is technically correct but doesn't fully explain the picture. But in the world of global corporates who have been increasingly proven to meddle in politics and governments, it's about opportunities.

Even the top economists seem to work on the assumption that governments are trying to achieve balanced growth rather than market disorder , so like Professor Blanchflower (below) many simply view the government's actions as incompetent rather than sinister - and sinister can't be completely ruled out.

96How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 15:05

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote: ...The real people pulling Truss's strings are the billionaire investors, offshore rich boys looking to pick up cheap deals in the carnage like those eyeing up the NHS/potential privatisations and hedge funds who've made hundreds of millions if not billions since Friday.

...Politicos tend to go with the rich richer, poor poorer mantra which is technically correct but doesn't fully explain the picture. But in the world of global corporates who have been increasingly proven to meddle in politics and governments, it's about opportunities.

Even the top economists seem to work on the assumption that governments are trying to achieve balanced growth rather than market disorder... many simply view the government's actions as incompetent rather than sinister - and sinister can't be completely ruled out.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Yes it is all a big plot by the deep state or secrete corporate world domination organisations...

You know like QAnon in America, or Ernst Stavro Blofeld's - Spectre organisation, or Covid being spread by 5G masts, or the Covid jabs were putting microchips in us to control us all...

You are bonkers mate, absolutely bonkers if you really believe the shit you post on here.



Oh and by the way if you did't know who Blofeld is...



He's not real and neither are the others I stated above nor your warped conspiratorial imagination as to what you clearly believe is somehow happening!!!

Rolling Eyes

97How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 15:08

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:I think that the millionaires are small fry in this scenario. The real people pulling Truss's strings are the billionaire investors, offshore rich boys looking to pick up cheap deals in the carnage like those eyeing up the NHS/potential privatisations and hedge funds who've made hundreds of millions if not billions since Friday.

It's interesting that the "man on the street" tends to interpret fiscal crises in terms of the cost of living, often not considering the potential scenarios if the economy properly crashes. Politicos tend to go with the rich richer, poor poorer mantra which is technically correct but doesn't fully explain the picture. But in the world of global corporates who have been increasingly proven to meddle in politics and governments, it's about opportunities.

Even the top economists seem to work on the assumption that governments are trying to achieve balanced growth rather than market disorder , so like Professor Blanchflower (below) many simply view the government's actions as incompetent rather than sinister - and sinister can't be completely ruled out.

Are these “top economists” the same “top economists who slated Maggies plans for the economy just before it took off?

The government have just cut everybody’s standard rate of tax and covered their excess energy bills for two years yet all you and other ne’er sayer's want to focus on is a maximum £2b cut of the top 45% rate and the removal of the bankers bonus cap that wasn’t working anyway. I do think Kwasi made a mistake in removing the 45% rate just now with things so difficult but the rest of it is pretty much supported by Labour, except that they were only suggesting energy cover for 6 months not 2 years.

We’ve had near to zero interest rates for too long and people have become too used to them, including the institutions. Somebody at some point had to end this nonsense and accept that hard though it may be (just as in the 80’s) interest rates need to rise back towards the 5% long term average. Yes it’s painful whilst it happens but sooner or later people are going to thank Liz Truss for having the balls to do what’s necessary. The only way people and government will erode the ridiculous debts they’ve built up is by inflating it away and if this sends a message to people that they have to cut back and live more within their means then that’s all to the good.

98How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 15:23

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

99How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 15:31

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I originally gave her until Christmas before she was removed.

I now realise I gave her too much credit, I expect a vote of no confidence by the end of October.

What an absolute disaster this woman is.

100How is the Tory Government Doing? - Page 5 Empty Re: How is the Tory Government Doing? Thu Sep 29 2022, 15:35

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

We know the Tories are corrupt and we know that corporations will exert influence on them - the recent Cameron and Paterson cases for example - and we know that as soon as the Tories got us out of the EU they voted down the offshore holdings tax bill, reduced corporation tax and refused to properly tax the resident oligarchs and their dodgy London registered companies. We know the role that corporates played in Brexit and we know they profited massively from it. Are the billions made in the immediate aftermath of government decisions just coincidence - even though the Tories were giving private audiences for hedge funders, corporates and/or their lobbyists in advance?
We know for a fact who the winners and losers are.
Sadly, the losers are the British people and all the evidence points to government corruption at our expense.

And I'll be more inclined to believe that until anyone can prove it's not happening.

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