How is the Tory Government Doing?

Whitesince63 wrote:
As I said Lusty, absolutely no point entering into dialogue with you.

Deflection again?

wanderlust wrote:Biden cancelled his  meeting with Liz Truss and although government officials are refusing to comment on the reason for the cancellation, it is perhaps more than coincidence that her newly appointed CoS/most senior advisor Mark Fullbrook is the subject of an FBI investigation re bribing US officials and attempting to subvert democracy in Puerto Rico which is administered by the USA.

Jesus it is just relentless hatred with you isn't it???

I strongly suggest you expand your social media following to beyond your 'confirmation bias' groups you clearly religiously look to (and post their bile up on here) and read more broadly.

It was reported YESTERDAY that Tross will meet Biden on Wednesday...

A planned meeting between Liz Truss and US President Joe Biden before the Queen's funeral has been cancelled, Downing Street has said.

No 10 said a "full bilateral meeting" between the PM and Mr Biden would instead take place at the UN General Assembly on Wednesday.

It is thought holding the talks after the period of national mourning would allow more wide-ranging discussions.

...When Liz Truss and Joe Biden do sit down, it will be closely scrutinised for any indications of the health, or otherwise, of the "special relationship".

I'm told that holding it after the official mourning period means it can be much more focussed on business rather than reflecting on the Queen.

There is a lot of business to tackle.

Joe Biden is no fan of Liz Truss's approach to the Northern Ireland Protocol, for a start.

The US has suggested it is "not conducive" to the other not-so-small matter of a trade deal.

All this will have to wait though, until later in the week.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62930439

Her not meeting Biden now has absolutely bugger all to do with Fullbrook (who has been around a very long time in the game of politics and power) yet you believe and repost such shit on here.

You are simply totally biased against everything and ANYTHING Tory, no matter what they do.

wanderlust wrote:

Whitesince63 wrote:
As I said Lusty, absolutely no point entering into dialogue with you.

That's extremely ironic coming from you!!!

Damn those Tory-hating newspapers and their inconvenient facts!

wanderlust wrote:Damn those Tory-hating newspapers and their inconvenient facts!

Which ones would they be then because everything I've seen has clearly stated that the meeting was cancelled to Wednesday to allow more in-depth discussions, that government officials HAVE commented about the change in date AND why this is being done (contrary to what you had stated) and NONE of the papers I've seen have remarked about Fullbrook being the reason why the original talks had been cancelled.

Indeed, it would seem rather odd in that he was the problem that no talks are being held today yet no issue at all about him and arranging to hold the talks just THREE DAYS later???

So which papers were it that was your source of reference for posting what you did as I'm sure we would all like to see this apparent story (and links to them).

(Hope you've not been telling porkies again!).

wanderlust wrote:

What a surprise, no links to back up the bullshit you had yet again been spouting.

Just your usual biased hatred of everything Tory.

A cognitive bias is a systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment. Individuals create their own "subjective reality" from their perception of the input. An individual's construction of reality, not the objective input, may dictate their behavior in the world. Thus, cognitive biases may sometimes lead to perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment, illogical interpretation, or what is broadly called irrationality.



Confirmation basis - is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.  Or in other words believes everything bad about the Tories, ignores anything good about the Tories.

Loss Aversion - is a cognitive bias, which explains why individuals feel the pain of loss twice as intensively than the equivalent pleasure of gain. As a result of this, individuals tend to try to avoid losses in whatever way possible.  Or in other words can never admit to being wrong and will lie if necessary.

The gambler's fallacy - also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy, occurs when an individual erroneously believes that a certain random event is less likely or more likely to happen based on the outcome of a previous event or series of events.
Or in other words the Torries have been wrong in the past so will be wrong in the future no matter what.

The Availability Cascade - How Information Spreads on a Large Scale. An availability cascade is a self-reinforcing process where a certain stance gains increasing prominence in public discourse, which increases its availability to people and which therefore makes them more likely to believe it and spread it further.  

The framing effect - is a cognitive bias where people decide on options based on whether the options are presented with positive or negative connotations; e.g. as a loss or as a gain. People tend to avoid risk when a positive frame is presented but seek risks when a negative frame is presented.  Or in other words read something bad about the Tories and stick it on here and take the risk it might be factually wrong (usually is!), read something good about the Torries NOT post it on here just in case it might be right!

Bandwagon Effect - is the term used to describe the tendency for people to adopt certain behaviors, styles, or attitudes simply because others are doing so. More specifically, it is a cognitive bias by which public opinion or behaviours can alter due to particular actions and beliefs rallying amongst the public.

Dunning-Kruger effect - in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general. In other words, a 'know it all' who can never admit to being wrong when shown to be.

Sluffy wrote:

What a surprise, no links to back up the bullshit you had yet again been spouting.

Just your usual biased hatred of everything Tory.

A cognitive bias is a systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment. Individuals create their own "subjective reality" from their perception of the input. An individual's construction of reality, not the objective input, may dictate their behavior in the world. Thus, cognitive biases may sometimes lead to perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment, illogical interpretation, or what is broadly called irrationality.



Confirmation basis - is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.  Or in other words believes everything bad about the Tories, ignores anything good about the Tories.

Loss Aversion - is a cognitive bias, which explains why individuals feel the pain of loss twice as intensively than the equivalent pleasure of gain. As a result of this, individuals tend to try to avoid losses in whatever way possible.  Or in other words can never admit to being wrong and will lie if necessary.

The gambler's fallacy - also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy, occurs when an individual erroneously believes that a certain random event is less likely or more likely to happen based on the outcome of a previous event or series of events.
Or in other words the Torries have been wrong in the past so will be wrong in the future no matter what.

The Availability Cascade - How Information Spreads on a Large Scale. An availability cascade is a self-reinforcing process where a certain stance gains increasing prominence in public discourse, which increases its availability to people and which therefore makes them more likely to believe it and spread it further.  

The framing effect - is a cognitive bias where people decide on options based on whether the options are presented with positive or negative connotations; e.g. as a loss or as a gain. People tend to avoid risk when a positive frame is presented but seek risks when a negative frame is presented.  Or in other words read something bad about the Tories and stick it on here and take the risk it might be factually wrong (usually is!), read something good about the Torries NOT post it on here just in case it might be right!

Bandwagon Effect - is the term used to describe the tendency for people to adopt certain behaviors, styles, or attitudes simply because others are doing so. More specifically, it is a cognitive bias by which public opinion or behaviours can alter due to particular actions and beliefs rallying amongst the public.

Dunning-Kruger effect - in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general. In other words, a 'know it all' who can never admit to being wrong when shown to be.

Like I posted earlier Sluffy, absolutely no point attempting to converse with Lusty on this topic, he’s so completely oblivious to anything remotely positive just as he was on the Brexit thread. How can an otherwise sensible and intelligent individual have such a closed mind?

Have you two finished waffling yet?

What exactly are you contesting?

The fact that Mark Fullbrook is being investigated by the FBI for corruption as widely reported?

The fact that Fullbrook is Truss's most senior advisor?

Or that my opinion that the ongoing corruption investigation is likely to be a have been a factor under consideration when deciding to meet with Truss at the original diary date due to stateside optics  or not?

Or my right to have an opinion at all?

Try to be clear about what you're actually saying instead of waffling.

Sluffy wrote:

What a surprise, no links to back up the bullshit you had yet again been spouting.

Just your usual biased hatred of everything Tory.

A cognitive bias is a systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment. Individuals create their own "subjective reality" from their perception of the input. An individual's construction of reality, not the objective input, may dictate their behavior in the world. Thus, cognitive biases may sometimes lead to perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment, illogical interpretation, or what is broadly called irrationality.



Confirmation basis - is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.  Or in other words believes everything bad about the Tories, ignores anything good about the Tories.

Loss Aversion - is a cognitive bias, which explains why individuals feel the pain of loss twice as intensively than the equivalent pleasure of gain. As a result of this, individuals tend to try to avoid losses in whatever way possible.  Or in other words can never admit to being wrong and will lie if necessary.

The gambler's fallacy - also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy, occurs when an individual erroneously believes that a certain random event is less likely or more likely to happen based on the outcome of a previous event or series of events.
Or in other words the Torries have been wrong in the past so will be wrong in the future no matter what.

The Availability Cascade - How Information Spreads on a Large Scale. An availability cascade is a self-reinforcing process where a certain stance gains increasing prominence in public discourse, which increases its availability to people and which therefore makes them more likely to believe it and spread it further.  

The framing effect - is a cognitive bias where people decide on options based on whether the options are presented with positive or negative connotations; e.g. as a loss or as a gain. People tend to avoid risk when a positive frame is presented but seek risks when a negative frame is presented.  Or in other words read something bad about the Tories and stick it on here and take the risk it might be factually wrong (usually is!), read something good about the Torries NOT post it on here just in case it might be right!

Bandwagon Effect - is the term used to describe the tendency for people to adopt certain behaviors, styles, or attitudes simply because others are doing so. More specifically, it is a cognitive bias by which public opinion or behaviours can alter due to particular actions and beliefs rallying amongst the public.

Dunning-Kruger effect - in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general. In other words, a 'know it all' who can never admit to being wrong when shown to be.

Shouldn't this be on the amateur psychology thread?

You may wish to read this to help you cope better.

The rest of us would benefit from reading this to try to learn to be more sympathetic towards you.

Either way, if you wish to extrapolate people's thoughts and quote psychology 101 articles as if they were relevant, start a thread for it

wanderlust wrote:
Have you two finished waffling yet?

I've not, I'll waffle as much as I like, thank you.

wanderlust wrote:What exactly are you contesting?

Contesting nothing.  Stating yet again how utterly and irrationally biased you are - and there is absolutely no doubt that you are.

wanderlust wrote:The fact that Mark Fullbrook is being investigated by the FBI for corruption as widely reported?

See there you go again - Fullbrook is a Tory, ergo he is corrupt, you just can't stop yourself can you..?

The actual truth is that Fullbrook has been interviewed by the FBI as a WITNESS as to work he did for a client who IS the one ACCUSED of bribery!!!

No 10 chief of staff spoken to by FBI about work for banker accused of bribery

Mark Fullbrook was interviewed as witness in proceedings against Julio Herrera Velutini...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/18/no-10-chief-of-staff-spoken-to-by-fbi-about-work-for-banker-accused-of-bribery

wanderlust wrote:The fact that Fullbrook is Truss's most senior advisor?

Nope.

wanderlust wrote:Or that my opinion that the ongoing corruption investigation is likely to be a have been a factor under consideration when deciding to meet with Truss at the original diary date due to stateside optics or not?

Nothing to do with your opinion and everything to do with your fake news...

This what you posted...

wanderlust wrote:Biden cancelled his  meeting with Liz Truss and although government officials are refusing to comment on the reason for the cancellation, it is perhaps more than coincidence that her newly appointed CoS/most senior advisor Mark Fullbrook is the subject of an FBI investigation re bribing US officials and attempting to subvert democracy in Puerto Rico which is administered by the USA.

Let's fact check this should we...

1 - Government officials are refusing to comment on the reasons why Biden's meeting was cancelled - FALSE

2 - Fullbrook is the SUBJECT of an FBI investigation re bribing - FALSE

3 - Fullbrook was attempting to subvert democracy in Puerto Rico - FALSE

Those were your STATEMENTS - and NOT your opinions.

wanderlust wrote:Or my right to have an opinion at all?

You have every right to have an opinion and I have every right to challenge fake news.

wanderlust wrote:Try to be clear about what you're actually saying instead of waffling.

We all know what I was saying - even you know, although you are pretending not to...

And we've ALL seen on countless occasions that you do shit like this simply to try and hide from the fact you are wrong, but you can't admit to being so.


Also thank you for your links to mental health help above but I believe your need for them are more urgently required than mine have ever been.

Have a nice day.

Lusty, I’ll give you just a few examples. I recently posted that the EU was in more trouble than the UK, a post that you completely dismissed.

Inflation in the European Union is now higher than in Britain as rising energy and food prices hit families on the continent. A report by official statisticians Eurostat showed prices across the 27 nation block 10.1% higher last month than in August last year.That was a sharper rise than the 9.9% in the U.K. and as high as 25.2% in Estonia.

Italy is soon to have elections in which anti EU populist parties are set to take control.

Hungary have continued to support Putin and along with several other Eastern states have refused to allow immigrants into their territory. This must lead to a problem down the line. 

The Germans will suffer a significant energy shortage this winter which will badly affect both household  and industrial users.

The problem is Lusty that your absolute refusal to accept anything remotely positive about Brexit or the Tory’s and continually close your eyes to the huge and growing problems in the EU make it absolutely impossible to hold sensible dialogue with you. I would value your contributions much more if you could see both sides of a situation instead of a totally one eyed and biased one which does you no favours.

Whitesince63 wrote:Lusty, I’ll give you just a few examples. I recently posted that the EU was in more trouble than the UK, a post that you completely dismissed.

Inflation in the European Union is now higher than in Britain as rising energy and food prices hit families on the continent. A report by official statisticians Eurostat showed prices across the 27 nation block 10.1% higher last month than in August last year.That was a sharper rise than the 9.9% in the U.K. and as high as 25.2% in Estonia.

There's not much in it if you take the bloc as a whole but our government currently says ours is marginally higher [url=https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02794/SN02794.pdf#:~:text=Inflation in the EU can be compared using,of CPI inflation since records began in 1997.]

here[/url]

- even if you include the poorer countries as the major EU countries that have economies comparable to ours are much lower, France for example.
Certainly no basis for claiming they are in more trouble than we are.


Italy is soon to have elections in which anti EU populist parties are set to take control.

Whereas the UK has no option for those who want to rejoin the EU to vote on it?
Again no basis for claiming they are in more trouble than we are

Hungary have continued to support Putin and along with several other Eastern states have refused to allow immigrants into their territory. This must lead to a problem down the line. 

Hungary and others rightly have a historical fear of Russia so this is hardly surprising but more importantly, the EU has responded and only yesterday they threatened Orban with a huge cut in funding and removal of the veto right. See here
Not in trouble - they're sorting out the problem
The Germans will suffer a significant energy shortage this winter which will badly affect both household  and industrial users.

They will suffer in the short term - but they are prepared to do it and have already reduced Russian gas imports from 40% dependency to just 9% in a matter of months. They have secured supply agreements with the USA/others and have rapidly accelerated their own energy production programmes especially green energy.
Next winter, the only ones to suffer will be the Russians and the Germans will soon be leading the way in green energy production.
Again no basis for claiming they are in more trouble than we are
The problem is Lusty that your absolute refusal to accept anything remotely positive about Brexit or the Tory’s and continually close your eyes to the huge and growing problems in the EU make it absolutely impossible to hold sensible dialogue with you. I would value your contributions much more if you could see both sides of a situation instead of a totally one eyed and biased one which does you no favours.

You and others keep claiming that there are things about Brexit and the Tories to be positive about, but whenever I ask you to tell us what they are - and believe me I'd love to hear them - you deflect. Rather than answer the question you try to say that I'm hateful - not that it would change the facts if I was - but the reality is that you'll try anything to avoid answering the questions raised. I am at least grateful that you made an effort on this occasion, even though I am not convinced by your points. But at least it is dialogue to which I hope you'll respond rather than trying to close the conversation down with diversionary tactics for a change.

More importantly than all of this is the fundamental ideological difference between the EU and the Tories which will guide their development and hinder ours.
The primary beneficiaries of Tory policies have been and will continue to be "big business" - predominantly foreign companies. Massive profits and the bills of hardship being passed on to the people of this country with a few short-term sops being handed out to voters like crumbs from a banquet.
The primary beneficiaries of EU policies have been the people they serve, taxing big business and using the money to help their people and in the case of France,controlling their own (and to some degree our) energy production and minimising the effect of the international crisis on their people.

So when I point out the increasing failure of smaller British businesses, the contraction of our economy, the allocation of our resources to foreign companies, the collapse of sterling, the cost of living crisis compared to comparable economies etc etc etc I do so because we are having massive problems due to this government and it's nothing to do with "hate" - it's just a fact and the sooner that people stop swallowing the hype - the Tories speciality - and blaming everyone but the government responsible for the problems they have caused, the sooner we can move on and start turning the ship around.

Liz Truss finally admits there is no hope of a UK/US trade deal in the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile the government are considering joining the EPC - the European Political Community - a new French-led vehicle for political co-operation in Europe.

As another cornerstone of Brexit collapses, hope rises from the ashes

It will get a lot of criticism from all sides but it seems to be a response to the threat of Russia - and if so may well include economic as well as military co-operation if it comes to fruition.
And if it goes down that road we could well be seeing the dawn of a new EU lite.

What do you think?

wanderlust wrote:Meanwhile the government are considering joining the EPC - the European Political Community - a new French-led vehicle for political co-operation in Europe.

As another cornerstone of Brexit collapses, hope rises from the ashes

It will get a lot of criticism from all sides but it seems to be a response to the threat of Russia - and if so may well include economic as well as military co-operation if it comes to fruition.
And if it goes down that road we could well be seeing the dawn of a new EU lite.

What do you think?

I think you've just flipped 180 degrees to what you've just posted yourself less than an hour ago!!!!

wanderlust wrote:More importantly than all of this is the fundamental ideological difference between the EU and the Tories which will guide their development and hinder ours.
The primary beneficiaries of Tory policies have been and will continue to be "big business" - predominantly foreign companies. Massive profits and the bills of hardship being passed on to the people of this country with a few short-term sops being handed out to voters like crumbs from a banquet.
The primary beneficiaries of EU policies have been the people they serve, taxing big business and using the money to help their people and in the case of France,controlling their own (and to some degree our) energy production and minimising the effect of the international crisis on their people.

So when I point out the increasing failure of smaller British businesses, the contraction of our economy, the allocation of our resources to foreign companies, the collapse of sterling, the cost of living crisis compared to comparable economies etc etc etc I do so because we are having massive problems due to this government and it's nothing to do with "hate" - it's just a fact and the sooner that people stop swallowing the hype - the Tories speciality - and blaming everyone but the government responsible for the problems they have caused, the sooner we can move on and start turning the ship around.

Sluffy wrote:

I think you've just flipped 180 degrees to what you've just posted yourself less than an hour ago!!!!

You probably do because you're extrapolating again trying to make a link between two unrelated things as per.

So we've joined the EPC already?

Does it even exist yet?

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

I think you've just flipped 180 degrees to what you've just posted yourself less than an hour ago!!!!

You probably do because you're extrapolating again trying to make a link between two unrelated things as per.

So we've joined the EPC already?

Does it even exist yet?

Hahaha!

If you say so...

Wanderlust - Tory government completely and fundamentally opposite ideologically to the EU's ideology.

Wanderlust (less than an hour later) - good chance that we will get to sort of rejoin the EU soon, fingers crossed!

Still smarting from the fact that I told you FIVE years ago that the big Brexit lie of getting a trade deal with the US wasn't going to happen any time soon?

Must really irk to be proved wrong yet again.

So now you're resorting to your old trick of using different words from the ones I used to try to justify your pathetic extrapolation? Laughable, although it does make a change from your other deflection technique of character assassination.

Why don't you just go away and find something to argue about with someone else? I know you've been trying without success so maybe you could misquote or invent something else to really get the conversation going and feed your pathetic need for approval?

Or just grow up.

wanderlust wrote:Still smarting from the fact that I told you FIVE years ago that the big Brexit lie of getting a trade deal with the US wasn't going to happen any time soon?

Must really irk to be proved wrong yet again.

So now you're resorting to your old trick of using different words from the ones I used to try to justify your pathetic extrapolation? Laughable, although it does make a change from your other deflection technique of character assassination.

Why don't you just go away and find something to argue about with someone else? I know you've been trying without success so maybe you could misquote or invent something else to really get the conversation going and feed your pathetic need for approval?

Or just grow up.

???

You've really lost the plot big time mate.

I've never argued/discussed/debated/chatted with you or anything else about trade deals with America or any other country for that matter?

I've never even been interested in Brexit, didn't even vote in the referendum - unlike you Hoppy510....

The only time I went on to the Brexit thread was to say it has happened (or to call out your ludicrous fake news posts) and that we all have to make the most of it if it turns out shit or not and that you really need to let it go and move on with your life.

Clearly you can't and you haven't.

You make things up in that head of yours and seem to believe what you've made up is true - and that becomes how you see the world is.

It's for that reason I've tried on a number of occasions to point you in the way of Cognitive Biases and in particular Confirmation Bias and suggest to you that your 'individual construction of reality' is causing your irrationality in respect of all things Tory and Brexit - and that you should look beyond the social media world that you inhabit as it is simply fueling your world of 'constructed reality' of things, to be true - and it most certainly is not.

I couldn't give a fig about being wrong, you learn by your mistakes as they say, you on the other hand would seemingly rather die than hold your hand up to any mistake or error that you make - and that's why we always go down this endless spiral of you doing whatever you can just to avoid admitting to being wrong about anything (and that incidentally is yet another symptom of Cognitive bias - Loss Aversion).

Christ you tell me I need help with my mental health but I'm not the one with massive hangup's and hatred to everything Tory and everything Brexit and certainly can't let them go for even a day on here and I am the one one who is more than happy to openly admit I get things wrong - look at the very first post on this current thread if you (in that head of yours) firmly believe I don't.

You really do need to get yourself sorted out because hatred and prejudice aren't healthy things to carry around with you.