Are Labour Finished?

I can see where I caused you confusion. Perhaps I should have chucked in a separate paragraph. I meant to imply that no-matter the party we, the working people, should be given decent jobs, pay, housing and a better quality of life. As for my voting preference, it's Tory, though I am leaning more and more towards UKIP, though that is driven by my desire to be out of Europe as it stands.

No

Blair finished Labour. 

But now we're back.

Bollotom2014 wrote:I can see where I caused you confusion. Perhaps I should have chucked in a separate paragraph. I meant to imply that no-matter the party we, the working people, should be given decent jobs, pay, housing and a better quality of life. As for my voting preference, it's Tory, though I am leaning more and more towards UKIP, though that is driven by my desire to be out of Europe as it stands.

Bollotom- why should we be given these things? Who should give them to us. I think it might be better if we earned them ourselves rather than all be given them

Okay, Rammy. "Earned".

Sadly no, there are still some brainless fuckwits who will walk into a polling booth and vote for the rotting corpse of a party that once had vision, talent and principles.

Are you talking about the SNP?

I don't know much about the Labour party, they seem such a rough bunch of chaps.

I'll see what my gardener says about this, he will be in tomorrow to prune my chestnuts.

xmiles wrote:Are you talking about the SNP?

Obviously not if you take a quick look at the polls

I would think so yes,more chance of a flat hedgehog getting up and continuing its way across M6

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Sadly no, there are still some brainless fuckwits who will walk into a polling booth and vote for the rotting corpse of a party that once had vision, talent and principles.

Out of interest, when did you think the party have value, talent and principles?

I was actually still engaged with the Labour party fairly recently, but as soon as James Purnell resigned and David Miliband didn't have the balls to follow him it was clear the core of the party couldn't give a fuck about the country.

Liberal Democrats - fasting rising party in the last 12 months taking members from every other party -  UKIP sinking faster than the Titanic, Conservatives pulled less in the 2015 GE than what they did in 2010 GE and popularity definitely waning especially due to Education and NHS.  Labour is a mixed bag, but Corbyn is definitely not the right leader and like some said above, Leigh MP, Andy Burnham, is waiting in the wings

How anyone could have listened to Burhman's pitch at the leadership and been impressed is beyond me, he was awful. I went into it thinking he'd probably get my vote but it became increasingly clear as it went on that he'd say anything he thought would be a vote winner (very similar to how Sadiq Khan's coming across as mayoral candidate). I've been far more impressed with Yvette Cooper and if we are to go back to a 'blairite' (hate that word) then I hope it's her, I don't agree with everything she does but she's principled, intelligent and brilliant in a debate.

bwfc1874 wrote:How anyone could have listened to Burhman's pitch at the leadership and been impressed is beyond me, he was awful. I went into it thinking he'd probably get my vote but it became increasingly clear as it went on that he'd say anything he thought would be a vote winner.

Completely agree. Burnham would be Blair lite of the worst kind.

bwfc1874 wrote:How anyone could have listened to Burhman's pitch at the leadership and been impressed is beyond me, he was awful. I went into it thinking he'd probably get my vote but it became increasingly clear as it went on that he'd say anything he thought would be a vote winner (very similar to how Sadiq Khan's coming across as mayoral candidate). I've been far more impressed with Yvette Cooper and if we are to go back to a 'blairite' (hate that word) then I hope it's her, I don't agree with everything she does but she's principled, intelligent and brilliant in a debate.

I agree. I am not enamoured with Burnham and nor are the other Labour MP's if the last leadership campaign is anything to go by. As far as I am concerned he is another in the same mould as Tony Bliar.  Burnham seems to be flavour of the month on the back of the Hillsborough campaign and I have no doubt he fancies the top job but it's a no from me.  .

I think Labour are pulling themselves apart in an effort to please everybody - and in the process are pleasing nobody. They haven't got a clue about how to compete in the modern world.
It's unlikely we'll ever get back to a "broad left" alliance in the UK of the type that once opened the church doors to socialists, marxists, communists, liberals and traditional labour voters of all hues when the party was at it's peak because anything left of Hitler is a dirty word in these self-obsessed, consumerist last days of capitalist ideology - an ideology that depends upon continuous economic growth forever which is of course not possible when resources are limited and in many cases running out.

As the world hurtles inevitably towards the modern equivalent of Malthusian Doom, we might stand another 20 or 30 years of capitalism but the fundamental flaws with capitalist ideology are starting to come home to roost (overpopulation, draining/mismanagement of natural resources, pollution, unrealistic expectation, unfair distribution of wealth and assets, poverty, starvation, greed/jealousy etc) so I can only see politics fracturing and fragmenting further as fear of "what we have done" ramps up nationalist isolationism and racism in a desperate bid to hang on to national identity and the economic gains the West made over hundreds of years at the expense of the rest of the world and the environment.

At a time when the emergent desire to reverse globalisation is creeping into the thinking of the "haves", the concept of global inclusiveness, freedom and equality central to Labour's ethos isn't going to cut the mustard in the UK. 

We are incredibly well off in the West, but as the gravy train slows to a halt we are less interested in sharing what we have and more interested in protecting what we have. We even protect the idea that it is our right to have all this shit. Unfortunately, the rest of the World doesn't see it that way and is hell-bent on closing the gap. Everyone wants what we have and there isn't enough for everybody unless we give up our wealth and our perceived rights. So if Labour is going to survive and thrive, it needs to reinvent itself again in a form that is leaner and meaner and is more prepared to deal with today's real issues and the concerns of an increasingly worried population.

But at the moment, they are still in cloud cuckoo land. Not only do they need to wake up and smell the coffee but they need to start acting professionally and develop the charismatic and media-savvy leadership that would be required to make people sit up and listen.

Not quite dead yet but in a critical condition IMO.

No because both of their main rivals are equally inept and ineffective, and like has been said you could put Bin Laden up in some parts of the country and the morons would still vote for him.
In the past you could see what each party stood for but now it's one big cesspit of self serving public schoolboys looking at what they can get out of it.

Any party that can elevate Livingstone and Diane Abbott to a position of authority, is asking for trouble.

When things were relatively quiet, Corbyn was making a little headway, but once the limelight is turned on him, everything is shown to be completely cocked up. The party is a disaster, not waiting to happen, but happening now.

I watched Diane Abbott being grilled by Andrew Marr on Sunday and she was awful. Patronising pontificating of the highest order. Dreadful..absolutely dreadful.