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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Is Covid now over?

Is Covid now over?

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Biggie
Cajunboy
BoltonTillIDie
karlypants
dutchwhites63
wanderlust
boltonbonce
Sluffy
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101Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:42 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

I think it is worth pointing out that one of the 'pre existing' conditions was/is that of being obese.

Apparently nearly one third of the population of adults in the UK and about 15% of children are obese.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03336/

The UK population was in 2020 estimated to be 67 million people.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates#:~:text=The%20population%20of%20the%20UK,%25)%20since%20mid%2Dyear%202019.

102Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:13 pm

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Problem with the stats is that obesity is commonly measured by BMI i.e. weight divided by height which is completely innacurate as it takes no account of muscle mass.

103Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:26 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Problem with the stats is that obesity is commonly measured by BMI i.e. weight divided by height which is completely innacurate as it takes no account of muscle mass.

I would imagine that by far and away the most measured by BMI are 'fatties' rather than the 'athletic' sorts of people.

You only have to look at those you see for yourself in the street to realise that!

104Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:43 am

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:Problem with the stats is that obesity is commonly measured by BMI i.e. weight divided by height which is completely innacurate as it takes no account of muscle mass.

I pick up and drop off my granddaughter at school Lusty and I can’t believe the size of many of these young mums. Their children are obviously going the same way and you can only imagine their diets at home. There’s no question that the problem is growing and if these people can’t be bothered to look after theirs and their childrens weight, why should people who do be penalised for it with Covid restrictions? Nobody can be unaware by now that obesity is a problem with Covid but these people just don’t care.

105Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:07 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Whitesince63 wrote:I pick up and drop off my granddaughter at school Lusty and I can’t believe the size of many of these young mums. Their children are obviously going the same way and you can only imagine their diets at home. There’s no question that the problem is growing and if these people can’t be bothered to look after theirs and their childrens weight, why should people who do be penalised for it with Covid restrictions? Nobody can be unaware by now that obesity is a problem with Covid but these people just don’t care.

You start to go into really deep water when you think like that.

Should the state treat everybody equally or not irrespective of their life choices?

For instance should we/they treat unvaxed Covid patients who aren't obese? Should we stop NHS services to people who are sick because they smoked and got lung cancer, or drank and killed their liver?

When you start to think like that then where do you draw the line - if at all?

Should we have a free health service, should we provide social housing, free education etc, etc, the list is endless.

Remember the saying, 'Beware what you wish for...'!


106Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:53 pm

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:

I pick up and drop off my granddaughter at school Lusty and I can’t believe the size of many of these young mums. Their children are obviously going the same way and you can only imagine their diets at home. There’s no question that the problem is growing and if these people can’t be bothered to look after theirs and their childrens weight, why should people who do be penalised for it with Covid restrictions? Nobody can be unaware by now that obesity is a problem with Covid but these people just don’t care.
There's something fundamentally wrong with your logic there mate. I'd explain it to you but I have two unwritten rules:
1.
2.

107Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:10 pm

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Sluffy wrote:

You start to go into really deep water when you think like that.

Should the state treat everybody equally or not irrespective of their life choices?

For instance should we/they treat unvaxed Covid patients who aren't obese?  Should we stop NHS services to people who are sick because they smoked and got lung cancer, or drank and killed their liver?

When you start to think like that then where do you draw the line - if at all?

Should we have a free health service, should we provide social housing, free education etc, etc, the list is endless.

Remember the saying, 'Beware what you wish for...'!



Excusez moi Sluffy but where did I say the obese shouldn’t be treated? By the way the health service isn’t free, neither is education, you and I as tax payers pay very dearly for it.

108Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:11 pm

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

wanderlust wrote:
There's something fundamentally wrong with your logic there mate. I'd explain it to you but I have two unwritten rules:
1.
2.

Which part? 🤔

109Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:41 pm

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:

Which part? 🤔
1.

Smile

110Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:05 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Whitesince63 wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

You start to go into really deep water when you think like that.

Should the state treat everybody equally or not irrespective of their life choices?

For instance should we/they treat unvaxed Covid patients who aren't obese?  Should we stop NHS services to people who are sick because they smoked and got lung cancer, or drank and killed their liver?

When you start to think like that then where do you draw the line - if at all?

Should we have a free health service, should we provide social housing, free education etc, etc, the list is endless.

Remember the saying, 'Beware what you wish for...'!



Excusez moi Sluffy but where did I say the obese shouldn’t be treated? By the way the health service isn’t free, neither is education, you and I as tax payers pay very dearly for it.

I never said you did, I was showing where your thinking was taking you.

And the NHS is free to users - taxpayers pay for the service but users (such as say children) have free access to it even if they've never paid a penny towards it.

Same goes for education.

You are confusing the services being provided free to users with tax payers funding services they may never use.  The alternative being users of the services pay for themselves, so no more NHS and state schools.

111Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:02 am

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Sluffy wrote:

I never said you did, I was showing where your thinking was taking you.

And the NHS is free to users - taxpayers pay for the service but users (such as say children) have free access to it even if they've never paid a penny towards it.

Same goes for education.

You are confusing the services being provided free to users with tax payers funding services they may never use.  The alternative being users of the services pay for themselves, so no more NHS and state schools.

Woo, woo, woo, you know what I’m thinking Sluffy?? 🥴

I’m not confusing anything, the term “free” is misleading and really should never have been used as it’s one of the reasons many people take it for granted. According to figures, the NHS is ranked 42nd in the world so maybe we do need to consider whether it’s really all that? Personally I think it’s time we had a complete root and branch review of what we get for our money because I’m sure if people really knew how their money was being wasted they may not consider it the sacred cow it’s perceived to be.

112Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:33 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Whitesince63 wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

I never said you did, I was showing where your thinking was taking you.

And the NHS is free to users - taxpayers pay for the service but users (such as say children) have free access to it even if they've never paid a penny towards it.

Same goes for education.

You are confusing the services being provided free to users with tax payers funding services they may never use.  The alternative being users of the services pay for themselves, so no more NHS and state schools.

Woo, woo, woo, you know what I’m thinking Sluffy?? 🥴

I’m not confusing anything, the term “free” is misleading and really should never have been used as it’s one of the reasons many people take it for granted. According to figures, the NHS is ranked 42nd in the world so maybe we do need to consider whether it’s really all that? Personally I think it’s time we had a complete root and branch review of what we get for our money because I’m sure if people really knew how their money was being wasted they may not consider it the sacred cow it’s perceived to be.

No I never said that, I said it was where your thinking was leading to - which is clearly not the same thing.

The term 'free' has always meant at the point of use.

Free healthcare at the point of use comes from the core principles at the founding of the National Health Service. The 1942 Beveridge cross-party report established the principles of the NHS which was implemented by the Labour government in 1948. Labour's Minister for Health Aneurin Bevan is popularly considered the NHS' founder, despite never formally being referred to as such. In practice, "free at the point of use" normally means that anyone legitimately and fully registered with the system (i.e., in possession of an NHS number), available to legal UK residents regardless of nationality (but not non-resident British citizens), can access the full breadth of critical and non-critical medical care, without payment except for some specific NHS services, for example eye tests, dental care, prescriptions and aspects of long-term care. These charges are usually lower than equivalent services provided by a private provider and many are free to vulnerable or low-income patients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)

113Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:41 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Two interesting bits of news, the first is -

Two-thirds with Omicron say they have had Covid before
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60132096

...and the second,

Posted at 11:45
Half of England's Covid patients mainly treated for other conditions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60143385

What the first bit of news means is that the total of daily cases being reported is massively under stated as reinfections are not counted.  The system is being changed imminently to reflect this but it really is just an accounting exercise - the good news from it is that absolutely loads of people have caught Covid (or re-caught it) yet the NHS hasn't fallen over - meaning the jabs/booster jabs and past infections seem to have brought a general resistance to Covid for the majority of us.

The second bit of news reflects that in that for every two people going into hospital who have Covid, half of them didn't even know they'd got it until they were tested at the hospital!

These people had to go to hospital for 'normal' reasons, a broken bone, cancer treatment, giving birth, etc - not because they were sick with Covid.

It does seem to be that Covid is much more widespread than we are being told in the current daily government news updates and that even loads more people clearly have it but simply don't know about it yet hospitals are coping, deaths aren't off the scale and life is now getting back to something more normal for most people.

Good news really for most of us.

114Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:48 am

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

It’s always been more widespread than the figures indicated Sluffy, as most people never got tested nor felt any symptoms either meaning it was never as much of a problem as the fear mongers told us. As well as your info above, it’s also clear that even the common cold has offered protection against Covid which is possibly why so many people were asymptomatic. It’s always been the case that the vaccines don’t protect from infection but having had Covid previously clearly gives the best protection against suffering badly. As you say, the low hospital figures imply that we’re getting through the virus well now and we can get back to something like normal again.

115Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:43 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Yes, the government could only report on what tests had been carried out, that's always been a given but the real measure has always been those who have turned up at the hospital who couldn't breath and that was certainly high enough to knock the NHS over if the government didn't take action to slow the spread by lockdowns.  Every country in the world has done this in some way or other, so I reject your view that all this was 'fearmongering'.

I've not seen the science that the common cold protects against Covid and 40,000 in hospital last January because of catching Covid badly seems to me to suggest that probably isn't the true case?

This study seems to say you can't catch Covid if you have a cold but once you get over it, it won't have given you any lasting protection from getting Covid the very next day, in the way having a jab does.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56483445

You are correct in saying vaccines don't stop you from catching Covid but they do give you much better help in preventing getting seriously ill from it - that's why I've had all the jabs - I think it is impossible not to keep completely free of Covid but if I do catch it, it won't kill me (I'm old and have other health issues).

I think it was the correct decision not to move in to lockdown this time (although the decision may well have been made for the wrong reason - Tory parliamentary revolt against Boris at the time) and Omicron's less lethal variation has moved us (due to high vaccination and high previous previous positive cases) to a level of acceptable herd immunity.

This is not to say Covid has gone away - indeed it seems to be on the rise again in the south east (I had previously thought it had peaked here) - and the old and vulnerable still need to keep safe from it.

116Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:16 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The answer to the question posed in the thread title seems to be... "Yes - it's all over."

117Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:03 am

Whitesince63


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Sluffy wrote:Yes, the government could only report on what tests had been carried out, that's always been a given but the real measure has always been those who have turned up at the hospital who couldn't breath and that was certainly high enough to knock the NHS over if the government didn't take action to slow the spread by lockdowns.  Every country in the world has done this in some way or other, so I reject your view that all this was 'fearmongering'.

I've not seen the science that the common cold protects against Covid and 40,000 in hospital last January because of catching Covid badly seems to me to suggest that probably isn't the true case?

This study seems to say you can't catch Covid if you have a cold but once you get over it, it won't have given you any lasting protection from getting Covid the very next day, in the way having a jab does.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56483445

You are correct in saying vaccines don't stop you from catching Covid but they do give you much better help in preventing getting seriously ill from it - that's why I've had all the jabs - I think it is impossible not to keep completely free of Covid but if I do catch it, it won't kill me (I'm old and have other health issues).

I think it was the correct decision not to move in to lockdown this time (although the decision may well have been made for the wrong reason - Tory parliamentary revolt against Boris at the time) and Omicron's less lethal variation has moved us (due to high vaccination and high previous previous positive cases) to a level of acceptable herd immunity.

This is not to say Covid has gone away - indeed it seems to be on the rise again in the south east (I had previously thought it had peaked here) - and the old and vulnerable still need to keep safe from it.


I think it’s misleading to take the number of people in hospital a year ago and before Sluffy because the majority of deaths and serious illness occurred at the beginning of the pandemic to the oldest and weakest, who you would expect to be the most likely to suffer. Although there were some younger people who suffered, the huge majority were old and suffering other morbidities. Since then both deaths and serious illness have fallen, which you’d also expect from those who survived and proved stronger.

I heard an argument once that black athletes both in the US and here, were more successful at some sports because their ancestors on the slave ships survived because they were stronger constitutionally. Most died on the trips across so it sounds logical and could possibly be why Covid deaths and hospitalisations are now lower since those with stronger systems were better able to stand up to it? Whatever it is, it’s not affecting as many people badly and whilst it’s not gone and possibly may never, at least we can now look forward to living around it.

118Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:47 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Whitesince63 wrote:I think it’s misleading to take the number of people in hospital a year ago and before Sluffy because the majority of deaths and serious illness occurred at the beginning of the pandemic to the oldest and weakest, who you would expect to be the most likely to suffer. Although there were some younger people who suffered, the huge majority were old and suffering other morbidities. Since then both deaths and serious illness have fallen, which you’d also expect from those who survived and proved stronger.

I heard an argument once that black athletes both in the US and here, were more successful at some sports because their ancestors on the slave ships survived because they were stronger constitutionally. Most died on the trips across so it sounds logical and could possibly be why Covid deaths and hospitalisations are now lower since those with stronger systems were better able to stand up to it? Whatever it is, it’s not affecting as many people badly and whilst it’s not gone and possibly may never, at least we can now look forward to living around it.

In your first paragraph you've missed my point completely I'm afraid.

You might well be correct that more people had Covid/died from it - the data doesn't exist to prove it one way or the other but in respect of last January we do and people occupying hospital beds with Covid peaked about at just over 40,000 and daily cases peaked around 55,000 per day. At that time only the most vulnerable had been jabbed (Margaret Keenan getting the very first jab on the 8th December, 2020 - so most catching it and dying from it were almost certainly un-jabbed at that point.

If you compare that to the present where the peak was at around 170,000 cases per day (three times higher that last January) and people in hospital beds peaked around 20,000 (half of last years), then it can be clearly seen that due to a large number having been vaccinated and/or having at some point caught it previously, together with the present dominant strain Omicron being less 'dangerous' to health than Delta was, that it was clearly the right decision not to have locked down this time and move to Covid being an endemic here and no longer a pandemic.

It can clearly be evidenced from the data we had from the second wave last January that this current wave was/is much less dangerous to us because through vaccination and people previously being infected plus the strain being 'milder', that a herd immunity has now begun to be established.

I believe you have misunderstood my previous post but think you are agreeing with my end conclusion?

As for your second paragraph, I wouldn't listen to such eugenic bollocks!

Whatever your views are, the simple fact is that although an estimated 11m slaves were transported alive to America, there were probably 100m or more that were not!

And American athletes (black, white or any other skin tone) have much better access to training facilities, equipment, coaching, nutrition ans a whole raft of other factors that helps give them an edge when competing against those who simply don't have the same access to them.

119Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:28 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

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120Is Covid now over? - Page 6 Empty Re: Is Covid now over? Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:54 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

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