Bolton Wanderers Football Club Fan Forum for all BWFC Supporters.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Keir Starmer - new Labour leader

Keir Starmer - new Labour leader

+9
sunlight
Sluffy
Natasha Whittam
karlypants
gloswhite
Cajunboy
Ten Bobsworth
boltonbonce
xmiles
13 posters

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Go down  Message [Page 3 of 9]

41Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 13:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’m not one to defend Tony Blair, but he seems to quite clearly disprove your point aside from Iraq - as does Cameron up until Brexit. 

Don’t mean to be dismissive but I’m struggling to see what your point is here Sluffy?

Blair disproves my point does he?

Even his own biographer wrote about his unpopularity and his eye to make himself wealthy!

The fact remains though that almost a decade after leaving Number 10, Mr Blair's public standing is even lower.

The lack of palpable progress in the Middle East, in Africa, and in world religions, does not of itself explain the hostility.

Rather, it has been his contacts with regimes and individuals of questionable morality, and his money-making activities and his homes, all of which have been regularly aired by a profoundly suspicious press, that seem to have caused the damage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33849764

Do you think he had no idea of what his wife was up to?

In 2002, Blair purchased two flats in Bristol with the assistance, it was alleged but later denied, of Peter Foster, a convicted Australian conman and boyfriend of Blair's friend Carole Caplin, who negotiated a discount for Blair. Blair publicly apologised for her embarrassing connection to Foster, stating "I did not think it was my business to choose my friends' friends"

In summer 2015, in the wake of the Hillary Clinton email controversy, Blair was revealed by The Guardian to have lobbied Clinton in 2009 on behalf of prominent members of the Qatari monarchy; Clinton was US Secretary of State at the time. In a letter to the newspaper, Blair denied this characterisation of her mediation efforts, describing their story as "sensationalist and inaccurate". Precisely two months later, the release of another batch of Clinton's private emails confirmed that Blair had, indeed, arranged meetings with Clinton for the Qataris outside normal diplomatic channels, with discussions to involve "the US/Qatar relationship generally", not merely joint philanthropic efforts. In one case, Blair herself stated that her purpose was to help the eldest of Sheikha Mosah's sons, Jasim bin Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, "build up an international profile"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherie_Blair#Controversies

Ok it wasn't him directly but it does question his integrity imo.

Point is as I keep saying politics is just a game - we all do it of a fashion - we just don't all see it for what it is.

Politics
/ˈpɒlɪtɪks/

noun

2 - activities aimed at improving someone's status or increasing power within an organization.
"yet another discussion of office politics and personalities"

I would also argue we do it in our home life too, to get our little ways, or to prevent others getting theirs.  

We learn how to use and manipulate to get our way when we are children, if mum says yes and dad says no, how many of us would get mum to intervene on our behalf - all of us would and probably have.

It's just how we steer our way through life, to survive and hopefully achieve what we want.

If that's not just all a glorified game then what is?

42Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 13:13

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:He demonstrated the flaw in your statement, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do.

He posted for a reaction first and foremost and of course Labour and Conservative governments do different things - why bother even having elections if whoever gets in say and do the same things as those they've just beat?

That isn't pointing out a flaw.

They differentiate to gain power - and do some of what they say they will do - otherwise no one will vote for them again as per the Lib Dems and their massive U-turn on scrapping student loans, once they went into coalition with Cameron.



43Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 13:36

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

You make the totally incorrect accusation that I "posted for a reaction first and foremost" when the reason I posted was simply to ask you to justify your sweeping statement that all politicians are the same.

You now seem to have admitted that they are not by saying "of course Labour and Conservative governments do different things". So it is not a false belief that one side is better than the other.

Asking you to justify what you say is not trolling.

44Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 13:55

Guest


Guest

You asked who was the last leader who 'truly delivered what they believed in' - you need to be quoting examples of policies or campaign pledges to justify that, not unpopularity and snide tactics for gaining wealth. 

Again I'm no defender of Blair or Cameron's integrity - I've spent a lot of time questioning it, but it's entirely separate to the question you want answering.

45Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 14:25

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:You asked who was the last leader who 'truly delivered what they believed in' - you need to be quoting examples of policies or campaign pledges to justify that, not unpopularity and snide tactics for gaining wealth. 

Again I'm no defender of Blair or Cameron's integrity - I've spent a lot of time questioning it, but it's entirely separate to the question you want answering.

It was a rhetorical question, so I don't have to do anything

Go argue with someone whose bothered or wants to play your games - I'm neither.

I've been reasonable and indulged you so far and yet you still keep pushing.

I couldn't give a toss what Blair did or is doing now but for someone whose name is a dirty word in his own party, whose own biographer admits to how unpopular he's become and his clear thirst to fabulously enrich himself even though he was the Prime Minister for ten years or so for a party who principle aim is for social and economic equality for everyone seems to conflict somewhat with whatever he did at the time I would say.

Believe what you want, canvass for whoever you like, you'll probably just end up like poor Bonce who clearly feels the party he's believed in all this time has changed from one that resonated with him in the first place to one he wants to leave now.

I see it as all a big game.  

If you don't that's up to you.

I won't be losing any sleep over it.

46Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:02

Guest


Guest

You're welcome to believe what you like, all I'm telling you is you've failed to justify it. Don't know why it needs to turn into a battle to be honest, happy to agree to disagree with you on it.

47Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:29

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:You're welcome to believe what you like, all I'm telling you is you've failed to justify it. Don't know why it needs to turn into a battle to be honest, happy to agree to disagree with you on it.

Thing is though I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else - what makes you think people need to answer to you?

It's you who turn things into a battles instead of saying something like, "fair enough but I don't agree with you" or something like that.

Christ I didn't even start off to talk about Blair other than to give him as a random example of how stupid it was to compare a party led by Hitler, to a party run by a moderate from an opposition group.

You're the one demanding I put forward examples of polices and pledges from him to defend a question I hadn't even asked in the first place!!!

It's got to stop.

People don't want to read this shit let alone be on the receiving end of it.

The game is over, we aren't here to prove how clever your debating skills are (or whatever it is you are doing) over fuck all, no matter how much you seem to get satisfaction from doing it - it's killing the fun for everybody else on the forum - even Norpig has started posting regularly someplace else now!

When will the penny finally drop with you?



48Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:32

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:even Norpig has started posting regularly someplace else now!


When did the Bumchums start recruiting outsiders?

49Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:37

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Politics has become a strange beast in recent years. As you can assume from my avi, I'm a big fan of Tintin. Nothing wrong with that you might think.
But no, I was accused of having Fascist leanings. You couldn't make it up. OK, Tintin in the Congo is certainly iffy, but was of its time. 
I might add that, as a proud member of the Desperate Dan Pie Eaters Club, I'll take on anyone who attempts to take away his gun. Any man who can smoke a dustbin on the end of a drainpipe is ok with me.

50Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:41

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Natasha Whittam wrote:

When did the Bumchums start recruiting outsiders?
This is very concerning. I hope he isn't going on that WW thing. I don't like the cut of their jibs.
Look like the kind of coves who keep a derringer down their socks.

51Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:48

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

It’s time Norpig stopped cheating on Nuts.

52Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:48

Guest


Guest

Sluffy, I just said I’m happy to agree to disagree with you on it. Nobody has demanded anything of you, you addressed me when I was replying to X. If you don’t want to discuss it, that’s cool but if you instigate I’m going to assume you do.

Again I have no idea what the issue is here, so let’s just drop it and move on.

53Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:49

Guest


Guest

boltonbonce wrote:
This is very concerning. I hope he isn't going on that WW thing. I don't like the cut of their jibs.
Look like the kind of coves who keep a derringer down their socks.

Don’t know what WW is, but I do know they’re no good for him. 

Bogger’s return must have really spooked them poor pig.

54Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 15:56

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

This could lead to a forum war. We'd need to get Scott back.

55Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 16:29

Guest


Guest

You’d better go and pull him back to safety Bonce, he’s out of his depth.

56Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 17:49

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Sluffy, I just said I’m happy to agree to disagree with you on it. Nobody has demanded anything of you, you addressed me when I was replying to X. If you don’t want to discuss it, that’s cool but if you instigate I’m going to assume you do.

Again I have no idea what the issue is here, so let’s just drop it and move on.

The issue is you and your never ending arguments - is that clear enough for you???

You don't demand anything from me then do you not?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:...you need to be quoting examples of policies or campaign pledges to justify that...
T.R.O.Y. wrote:...I'm telling you is you've failed to justify it...

I NEED to be doing things???

You're TELLING me???

I've FAILED!!!

Who the fuck are you to TELL anybody anything on here ffs?

Well I've certainly FAILED to get you to pack in your relentless, argumentative, self indulgent, I'm clever/superior/smarter/better then you (or whatever kick you get out of it) ways on here - that's for sure.

As for Norpig, he's free to post where he likes, I don't have a problem with that and if I wasn't already banned off that site - presumably because I stood up and said it was disgusting that people were openly threatening an eighty year old bloke with violence and abuse for simply having a different (and factual) view to them (and worse still apparently, having an old school type sense of humour and inferring one or two weren't the sharpest knives in the cutlery drawer) - I'd probably be posting on there with him.

That's how utterly sick I am of the whole thing.

I certainly don't NEED the aggravation of playing your little games just for your amusement/satisfaction.

No wonder hardly anybody posts anymore is it really?

57Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 18:09

Guest


Guest

I’ve said to you before I think this is getting to you more than it should, it’s certainly not worth getting wound up about - perhaps other issues at play outside of this forum nonsense and genuinely hope all is okay ok your side.

All I can do is assure you I’m not trying to wind you up, and I’m certain X is the same. If I’ve upset you here I’m sorry as it certainly wasn’t my intention. 

As always happy to chat over PM or anything if you need.

58Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 19:22

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’ve said to you before I think this is getting to you more than it should, it’s certainly not worth getting wound up about - perhaps other issues at play outside of this forum nonsense and genuinely hope all is okay ok your side.

All I can do is assure you I’m not trying to wind you up, and I’m certain X is the same. If I’ve upset you here I’m sorry as it certainly wasn’t my intention. 

As always happy to chat over PM or anything if you need.

Nah, I won't be bothering thank you.

It was only a couple of days ago we had a chat that way and I bent over backwards in a genuine attempt to work things out with you, even taking down stuff to show my willingness and saying that as long as we can recognise when the argument/discussion/banter/game/call it what you will has gone too far to let it go and move on to something else - but clearly you are unwilling/incapable/having too much fun/whatever it is, to do that.

I couldn't give a toss what is said on the internet - it is only the internet when all said and done but clearly once you get your teeth into something you refuse to let go.

I don't know why?

I've never gained anything in all the years I've been on forums by winning and argument and equally I've never suffered if I lost one - they are only words on the ether - and said by people who may not even believe themselves what they are typing.

Seems to me you yearn to get a reaction to what you post, hence why you never can seem to let things be when it's clear that whatever it is has long since been done to death and no one but yourself is in anyway keen to continue going on about it.

You don't need to be concerned about my well being thank you, it certainly isn't that that pisses me off but the utter pointlessness of whatever you continual try to prove by these endless and meaningless arguments you deliberately contrive and relentlessly pursue, to the benefit of no one else on the site and presumably  done simply for your own satisfaction and amusement - nobody else enjoys them.

I did think we had achieved a way forward, beneficial to everyone of us just a few days back but clearly nothing has changed at all.

Shame as Nuts used to be a fun site at one time before the hatred of Brexit, Anderson, Trump, Johnson. etc started and has never really ceased.

People don't want to come on sites to be depressed or to read never ending arguments - I don't blame them - I wouldn't either.

Fake accounts, deliberate trolling and relentless abuse over the years put an end to the fun though and my recent attempts to achieve a 'new normal' has already failed with you.

There's not much more I can say really.

There's certainly not much fun about on here these days is there?

59Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 19:34

Guest


Guest

I’ve said to you before I feel uncomfortable with how seriously you take all of this. The more often we get into these chats the more I think its genuinely not healthy for you - and I don’t want any part in causing someone I’ll never meet ill health.

I’ll reiterate what I said before that I honestly haven’t meant to upset you on this thread, clearly I have so I apologise to you. My comments were not meant to get a reaction like this.

I’ll put you on the ignore function so we don’t need to interact in future. Let’s see how that goes for a bit.

60Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26 2020, 20:23

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’ve said to you before I feel uncomfortable with how seriously you take all of this. The more often we get into these chats the more I think its genuinely not healthy for you - and I don’t want any part in causing someone I’ll never meet ill health.

I’ll reiterate what I said before that I honestly haven’t meant to upset you on this thread, clearly I have so I apologise to you. My comments were not meant to get a reaction like this.

I’ll put you on the ignore function so we don’t need to interact in future. Let’s see how that goes for a bit.

Haha, you'll 'avoid' me for the good of my health - that's a good one!

Only an hour or so ago you didn't give a fig about my health when you were relentlessly arguing with me over things I never even asked!!!

I don't wish you to avoid me, I'm even happy to argue/debate/banter with you still - all I ask is to recognise when enough is enough.

Everybody else it seems can do it, I'm sure you can to - if you wanted!

It's only the internet remember!

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 3 of 9]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum