How is the Tory Government Doing?

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Sluffy

wanderlust wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Liz Truss finally admits there is no hope of a UK/US trade deal in the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile the government are considering joining the EPC - the European Political Community - a new French-led vehicle for political co-operation in Europe.

As another cornerstone of Brexit collapses, hope rises from the ashes

It will get a lot of criticism from all sides but it seems to be a response to the threat of Russia - and if so may well include economic as well as military co-operation if it comes to fruition.
And if it goes down that road we could well be seeing the dawn of a new EU lite.

What do you think?

Truss signs upHere

Posted at 18:02
We've just been hearing from prime minister Liz Truss, who is currently attending the summit in Prague of the new group of European countries called the European Political Community(EPC).

She says the meeting is about the UK working with its European partners to "challenge Putin's appalling war in Ukraine".

"It's very important that we work with our neighbours and allies to face down Putin, but also deal with the issues we face," Truss says.

Among those issues are inflation, migration and rising energy costs, she says.

She stresses her attendance at the summit is not about moving closer to Europe in an attempt to ease UK-EU trade to boost growth.

"This is not about moving closer to Europe," she says.

"This is about working with Europe on issues that we both face and we both face rising energy costs," she says.

"That is why we're working with our European neighbours on doing more on the North Sea, on off-shore wind.

"We're working with our partners on more nuclear energy, so that we're never in the same position again of being dependent on Russia, and Russia using energy as leverage against free democracies," she adds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-63142141

I think that Truss’s statement translates to “well voters, we obviously need to work more closely with our neighbours economically but I promise this is nothing to do with working more closely with our neighbours economically - honest!”

wanderlust wrote:I think that Truss’s statement translates to “well voters, we obviously need to work more closely with our neighbours economically but I promise this is nothing to do with working more closely with our neighbours economically - honest!”

I think that even if Brexit turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread you will still hate with a vengeance both it and the Tories.

You told us all YOU VOTED FOR BREXIT in case you've forgot...

There is absolutely nothing wrong in trying to get the best deals and cooperation with our neighboring countries on absolutely everything we can.

AND no doubt they want the same with us!

We KNOW we can't rejoin the EU.

They KNOW we aren't rejoining the EU.

So what exactly have you got against the UK and EU having talks and trying to find the best way to live with each other - for ALL of our mutual benefits and interests???

You just see 'TORY' or 'BREXIT and you just spew your obsessive and hatred and bile every single time.

You really, really need to move on with your life.

Think I was perhaps a bit wide of the mark with the bromance predictions. 

Hip Priest wrote:Think I was perhaps a bit wide of the mark with the bromance predictions. 

I'm a bit of a cold fish in real life, I don't get too excited about things, nor do I get depressed by anything.  I also tend to treat most everybody the same, I don't love them to bits, nor hate their eyes out, I have no favorites nor do have a downer on anyone - I just treat everybody fairly and move on with my life carrying no emotional baggage like revenge, anger, bitterness and hate with me - I mean what's the point really, it only screws you up further.  My view is that life is too short to be wasted on that!

I'm exactly the same on social media - I don't 'buddy' up with anyone, nor do I treat anyone different than anyone else - I'm sure my fellow mods will confirm that I'm not out for popularity, but I do act fairly and honestly at all times and can and do give my reasons and explanations for everything I do on here and evidence such through links to direct quotes made on the forum by myself or others.  In other-words I can justify what I do and why.

It should be blindingly obvious to everybody by now that Wanderlust carries deep personal issues with a number of things, most notable to us on here being anything at all in relationship to the Conservative Part (their MP's Ministers, Peers, government, polices, backers, supporters, any media in support of them, etc, etc, etc), and Brexit (where Wanderlust under the guise of Hoppy510 posted a confessional on the ww site saying he now bitterly regrets that he voted for Brexit and only did so because he believed the stuff Boris etc were saying and that he is now incensed about being duped - or words to the effect).

Wanderlust is also clearly an obsessive as can be evidenced on here as to how often he writes about Brexit and/or the Tories (more or less daily - often several times at that!), and in which his clear and obvious hatred/negativity/bile about them are based on his longstanding and deep-seated views (he often references Thatcher's doings and she resigned as PM in 1990 - 32 years ago!!!) and not on any current reasoned logic or debate.

So, no, Hip Preist there never was a chance of a 'bromance' with Wanderlust, I'm not that type of a person anyway and in real life I definitely would not wish to be around someone with issues who clearly has no desire to move on with his life and prefers to stew in his own anger bitterness and resentment.

We've left the EU and irrespective if we believe that to be the right or wrong decision the die as been cast, and we have no other choice than to get on with it.

Similarly, I myself have not been impressed by how the government from PM downwards have acted on many issues in the last 12 years of Tory government - but equally I wasn't that impressed by the previous years of Blair/Brown government who let not forget took us to war on a lie, and when they left office, left the country in a financial mess (remember that infamous note left for the incoming Tory Chancellor!).

Not everything Tory and Brexit is/will be bad - it is impossible for anyone to achieve that even if that was their sole objective to do so deliberately - so it stands to reason that anybody (Wanderlust) believing it will be/is all bad (and that this is being manipulated by a deep state/corporate secretive body 'pulling the strings of Boris Johnson and Lis Trust and the rest of their cabinet's) strongly suggests that they are a very long way away from the path of sense and reasonability (they certainly ARE in my opinion!).

I would hope for his own health he would move on from his issues, but it is abundantly clear he is consumed by them and won't be doing.

So that's why he posts the drivel he does and why I laugh at it at and highlight why simple common sense can show just how stupid his hatred and prejudices often are!

Promising start for the 44 nation summit. 
Macron and Truss have already agreed on closer cooperation on small boat migrant crossings - something that had stalled previously- but the jury is still out as to whether or not it’s just a talking shop. 
Agreement reached to extend uk/France nuclear cooperation Here

Clearly the agenda goes beyond Ukraine if they’re discussing channel crossings- maybe they’ll have a bearing on the ni protocol as talks resume today in London?

Everything depends on turning words into deeds so it’s far too early to make any kind of assessment but at least the uk has a platform for discussion with our neighbours again - at least for now.

Historic tripartite meeting between Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan Here

Domestically all the leaders seem to be holding the party line - Norway calling it an ad hoc energy alliance, Erdogan not talking to Greece, Truss saying it’s not th eu etc, but outcomes are more important than labels so we’ll see what it brings.

I commend Macron on attempting to do what should have happened in the first place and encourage all like minded European countries to come together on areas of mutual benefit and not try to engage in a federal organisation which won’t suit individual members. I see this as the sensible start of a process to replace the EU as it quickly disintegrates. If nothing else, the Ukraine situation has illustrated perfectly how far apart the likes of Hungary, Poland and other Eastern states are from the likes of Germany and France and how weak it has made the likes of Italy and Greece through their financial demise. 

Well done Liz for accepting the opportunity to create this league of independent nations without the expense and interference of unelected and out of touch numbskulls in Brussels. This is the future, the EU is the past and the sooner the better. Even Varadker now accepts that the NI protocol is too tight, whatever next? Maybe some common sense really is dawning?

Whitesince63 wrote:I commend Macron on attempting to do what should have happened in the first place and encourage all like minded European countries to come together on areas of mutual benefit and not try to engage in a federal organisation which won’t suit individual members. I see this as the sensible start of a process to replace the EU as it quickly disintegrates. If nothing else, the Ukraine situation has illustrated perfectly how far apart the likes of Hungary, Poland and other Eastern states are from the likes of Germany and France and how weak it has made the likes of Italy and Greece through their financial demise. 

Well done Liz for accepting the opportunity to create this league of independent nations without the expense and interference of unelected and out of touch numbskulls in Brussels. This is the future, the EU is the past and the sooner the better. Even Varadker now accepts that the NI protocol is too tight, whatever next? Maybe some common sense really is dawning?

I also have cautious optimism about this initiative but it’s very early doors and it may achieve nothing or everything. One way or another there needs to be a European bloc of some description to fight our corner in a world which will eventually marginalise small European nations like ours between the economic and military might of China and the US. Collectively we may be able to compete - alone we’ll be steamrollered.

Sluffy wrote:

I'm a bit of a cold fish in real life, I don't get too excited about things, nor do I get depressed by anything.  I also tend to treat most everybody the same, I don't love them to bits, nor hate their eyes out, I have no favorites nor do have a downer on anyone - I just treat everybody fairly and move on with my life carrying no emotional baggage like revenge, anger, bitterness and hate with me - I mean what's the point really, it only screws you up further.  My view is that life is too short to be wasted on that!

I'm exactly the same on social media - I don't 'buddy' up with anyone, nor do I treat anyone different than anyone else - I'm sure my fellow mods will confirm that I'm not out for popularity, but I do act fairly and honestly at all times and can and do give my reasons and explanations for everything I do on here and evidence such through links to direct quotes made on the forum by myself or others.  In other-words I can justify what I do and why.

It should be blindingly obvious to everybody by now that Wanderlust carries deep personal issues with a number of things, most notable to us on here being anything at all in relationship to the Conservative Part (their MP's Ministers, Peers, government, polices, backers, supporters, any media in support of them, etc, etc, etc), and Brexit (where Wanderlust under the guise of Hoppy510 posted a confessional on the ww site saying he now bitterly regrets that he voted for Brexit and only did so because he believed the stuff Boris etc were saying and that he is now incensed about being duped - or words to the effect).

Wanderlust is also clearly an obsessive as can be evidenced on here as to how often he writes about Brexit and/or the Tories (more or less daily - often several times at that!), and in which his clear and obvious hatred/negativity/bile about them are based on his longstanding and deep-seated views (he often references Thatcher's doings and she resigned as PM in 1990 - 32 years ago!!!) and not on any current reasoned logic or debate.

So, no, Hip Preist there never was a chance of a 'bromance' with Wanderlust, I'm not that type of a person anyway and in real life I definitely would not wish to be around someone with issues who clearly has no desire to move on with his life and prefers to stew in his own anger bitterness and resentment.

We've left the EU and irrespective if we believe that to be the right or wrong decision the die as been cast, and we have no other choice than to get on with it.

Similarly, I myself have not been impressed by how the government from PM downwards have acted on many issues in the last 12 years of Tory government - but equally I wasn't that impressed by the previous years of Blair/Brown government who let not forget took us to war on a lie, and when they left office, left the country in a financial mess (remember that infamous note left for the incoming Tory Chancellor!).

Not everything Tory and Brexit is/will be bad - it is impossible for anyone to achieve that even if that was their sole objective to do so deliberately - so it stands to reason that anybody (Wanderlust) believing it will be/is all bad (and that this is being manipulated by a deep state/corporate secretive body 'pulling the strings of Boris Johnson and Lis Trust and the rest of their cabinet's) strongly suggests that they are a very long way away from the path of sense and reasonability (they certainly ARE in my opinion!).

I would hope for his own health he would move on from his issues, but it is abundantly clear he is consumed by them and won't be doing.

So that's why he posts the drivel he does and why I laugh at it at and highlight why simple common sense can show just how stupid his hatred and prejudices often are!

Yes, I think we all know what a cold fish you are.

You even chided Wessy for being emotional, as though it was a weakness or an illness.

wanderlust wrote:
I also have cautious optimism about this initiative but it’s very early doors and it may achieve nothing or everything. One way or another there needs to be a European bloc of some description to fight our corner in a world which will eventually marginalise small European nations like ours between the economic and military might of China and the US. Collectively we may be able to compete - alone we’ll be steamrollered.

Talking us down again Lusty. We are not a small European Nation, we are the UK and although of course uniting with others on important issues is sensible, we are still widely respected worldwide and always punch above our weight. Other than the US, nobody has supported or backed Ukraine as we have and certainly not the Germans or French. 

Obviously other nations like China and India are growing quickly and I agree it’s essential to combine with others but not a failing EU. I genuinely hope as it falls apart, which it will, that a new amalgamation of nations replaces it, all sovereign and independent. The EU is now a failed experiment and a new less federal and expensive group needs to replace it.

Love your national pride mate, but we’ve slipped from top dog to 6th and we’re still sliding so we need to stop banging on about how big we once were and start working out how we can compete in the modern world

Cajunboy wrote:Yes, I think we all know what a cold fish you are.

You even chided Wessy for being emotional, as though it was a weakness or an illness.

If I 'chided' Wessy at all, it was to point out that 'emotional' thoughts (and actions) aren't always the most rational ones that could have been taken.

Indeed, Kipling even put that exact point as the first line of his most famous poem...

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs...

Why do you think the Labour Party, the unions, the papers, etc, etc, made such an issue of the 45% tax cut - was it because -

A) It was the key part of the mini budget - wrong

B) Because it was the largest (or one of the largest) costs of the mini budget - nope at £3 billion out of £45 billion it was probably the smallest single individual item!

C) Because if effected the most people - wrong again - the percentage of who would have gained from the UK working population was less than 1%

or

D) Because it was the most ENOTIONAL item and the one that nearly everybody could grasp and understand!!! (Can any of you really say the fully understand what the remaining fourteen fifteenth's (94%) of the mini budgets cost involved are and if so how theyt will affect them???

No me neither!


Politics is all a big game really.

The vast majority of people don't realise that they are 'played'/unduly influenced/led/manipulated or whatever name you want to call it - and all done to secure their votes - look what happened in the opinion polls, directly after the mini budget - which don't forget - all revolved about the 45% tax cut - and that was insignificant and incidental to the main thrust of having this mini budget it the first place.

Being emotional in business and power - which politics basically IS - is certainty not a strength - otherwise parties such as the environmentally friendly Green Party, or the social equality parties such as the Social Democrats /Liberals, or the workers' rights parties such as Labour party would be in power all over the world - and they are not!

However, USING emotional power - in a deliberate and targeted way in which this was - has a very. very strong outcome - remember what happened in the opinion polls since!

Do I care if you. Wessy, Wanderlust or anybody else are emotional - not in the least. Do I think you maybe be weak or ill to be emotional - I could care less about it. it's up to you what you are. However, if I was a Labour Party candidate seeking your vote, I definitely play to your emotions and definitely be certain of your votes.

That's how the game works,

And that's why we've had Truss, Johnson, May, Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major and Thatcher as our Prime Ministers for the last 40 odd years - any of them emotional characters...?

The game is about power and cynically using others' emotions as a means to an end.

wanderlust wrote:Love your national pride mate, but we’ve slipped from top dog to 6th and we’re still sliding so we need to stop banging on about how big we once were and start working out how we can compete in the modern world

Hahaha!!!

WHAT!

When was the last time we were the top dog??? - the USA overtook us over a century ago!!!

Germany and Japan have been in front of us at least for over 50 YEARS and China for the best part of a decade!

India has now become recognised as a world superpower and has now moved ahead of us - hardly as though we've suddenly gone crashing down the rankings as your post seems to be suggesting is it!

As for competing in "the modern world" we are still in front of France, Canada and Brazil - even after being out of the EU"

The following is from the IMF as recently as April of this year!!!


Largest economies in the world by GDP in 2022
according to International Monetary Fund estimates

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2022/April/weo-report?c=512,914,612,171,614,311,213,911,314,193,122,912,313,419,513,316,913,124,339,638,514,218,963,616,223,516,918,748,618,624,522,622,156,626,628,228,924,233,632,636,634,238,662,960,423,935,128,611,321,243,248,469,253,642,643,939,734,644,819,172,132,646,648,915,134,652,174,328,258,656,654,336,263,268,532,944,176,534,536,429,433,178,436,136,343,158,439,916,664,826,542,967,443,917,544,941,446,666,668,672,946,137,546,674,676,548,556,678,181,867,682,684,273,868,921,948,943,686,688,518,728,836,558,138,196,278,692,694,962,142,449,564,565,283,853,288,293,566,964,182,359,453,968,922,714,862,135,716,456,722,942,718,724,576,936,961,813,726,199,733,184,524,361,362,364,732,366,144,146,463,528,923,738,578,537,742,866,369,744,186,925,869,746,926,466,112,111,298,927,846,299,582,487,474,754,698,&s=NGDPD,&sy=2022&ey=2022&ssm=0&scsm=1&scc=0&ssd=1&ssc=0&sic=0&sort=country&ds=.&br=1

IFS calculations of public spending cuts needed to meet government spending plans outlined here.

They include losing 200k public sector jobs, getting rid of the triple pensions lock, cutting foreign aid by 10% and freezing benefits.

wanderlust wrote:Love your national pride mate, but we’ve slipped from top dog to 6th and we’re still sliding so we need to stop banging on about how big we once were and start working out how we can compete in the modern world

I’m not talking about how big we were, I’m talking about how big we are now, as you say still the 6th biggest economy in the world. If we allow Truss to deliver on her plans there’s no reason why we can’t at least stay where we are. Obviously the big economies like the US, China and India are always going to be ahead of us but it isn’t all about economies. We are politically a massive voice and I don’t see that changing. Once again I hear you talking our country down and I just don’t understand you. Stop moaning Lusty, get behind our opportunities and all those things you want for yourself and other people might just result.

Sluffy wrote:

If I 'chided' Wessy at all, it was to point out that 'emotional' thoughts (and actions) aren't always the most rational ones that could have been taken.

Indeed, Kipling even put that exact point as the first line of his most famous poem...

If you can keep your head when all about you  
   Are losing theirs...

Why do you think the Labour Party, the unions, the papers, etc, etc, made such an issue of the 45% tax cut - was it because -

A) It was the key part of the mini budget - wrong

B) Because it was the largest (or one of the largest) costs of the mini budget - nope at £3 billion out of £45 billion it was probably the smallest single individual item!

C) Because if effected the most people - wrong again - the percentage of who would have gained from the UK working population was less than 1%

or

D) Because it was the most ENOTIONAL item and the one that nearly everybody could grasp and understand!!!  (Can any of you really say the fully understand what the remaining fourteen fifteenth's (94%) of the mini budgets cost involved are and if so how theyt will affect them???

No me neither!


Politics is all a big game really.

The vast majority of people don't realise that they are 'played'/unduly influenced/led/manipulated or whatever name you want to call it - and all done to secure their votes - look what happened in the opinion polls, directly after the mini budget - which don't forget - all revolved about the 45% tax cut - and that was insignificant and incidental to the main thrust of having this mini budget it the first place.

Being emotional in business and power - which politics basically IS - is certainty not a strength - otherwise parties such as the environmentally friendly Green Party, or the social equality parties such as the Social Democrats /Liberals, or the workers' rights parties such as Labour party would be in power all over the world - and they are not!

However, USING emotional power - in a deliberate and targeted way in which this was - has a very. very strong outcome - remember what happened in the opinion polls since!

Do I care if you, Wessy, Wanderlust or anybody else are emotional - not in the least.  Do I think you may be be weak or ill to be emotional - I couldn't care less about it, it's up to you what you are.  However, if I was a Labour Party candidate seeking your vote, I definitely play to your emotions and definitely be certain of your votes!

That's how the game works.

And that's why we've had Truss, Johnson, May, Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major and Thatcher as our Prime Ministers for the last 40 odd years - any of them emotional characters...?

The game is about power and cynically using others' emotions as a means to an end.

    Try and keep your replies short and snappy, some of us have busy lives.

okocha wrote:

God, he's a tedious git!!!

Someone needs to pick this up and release it as a single. It would be banned immediately after a couple of plays on radio 1 and consequently be the number 1 hit single in the country within days. Gives everyone a chance to poke more fun at the Tories as they stew in their own juice.