How is the Tory Government Doing?

Bank of England again forced to intervene to save the economy. Here

Estimated Kwarteng will have to make about £60 billion in cuts to balance the books.

Presumably this latest disaster can be blamed on covid/the EU/Ukraine/the French/Labour/the dog ate my homework/left wing media or anything other than the government in the world of slopy shoulders?

wanderlust wrote:Bank of England again forced to intervene to save the economy. Here

Estimated Kwarteng will have to make about £60 billion in cuts to balance the books.

Presumably this latest disaster can be blamed on covid/the EU/Ukraine/the French/Labour/the dog ate my homework/left wing media or anything other than the government in the world of slopy shoulders?

Let's make it easy shall we.

Any government raises taxes on the people in order to spend on stuff.

If you want to discount the costs the government has made on Covid, funding Ukraine in its war, the effects of the war on energy prices and government subsidies to us all, the effects of Brexit (which don't forget YOU VOTED FOR) and whatever you mean by the rest of your non sensical, rabid hyperbole is supposed to mean - then what exactly has the government done to waste these billions of pounds on?

Do you really believe if we had a Labour government during this time that we wouldn't have had Brexit (which of course YOU VOTED FOR), or Covid, or a war in Ukraine, or the weaponisation of energy costs?

Of course we would!

It's always unrelenting hatred with you in respect to everything Tory and no resemblance to real life events and happenings in that utterly prejudicial head of yours.

I’ll make it even easier. 

Those factors also affect other countries but the UK is the only country in the G7  with a smaller economy than before COVID.

The UK has the highest inflation and inflation forecast in the G7

The UK will have to make the most cuts to public services pro rata to total government spending in the G7


The UK is also the only country in the G7 that has endured an incompetent Tory government.

Prejudicial? Really? It’s called seeing past the BS.

wanderlust wrote:I’ll make it even easier. 

Those factors also affect other countries but the UK is the only country in the G7  with a smaller economy than before COVID.

The UK has the highest inflation and inflation forecast in the G7

The UK will have to make the most cuts to public services pro rata to total government spending in the G7


The UK is also the only country in the G7 that has endured an incompetent Tory government.

Prejudicial? Really? It’s called seeing past the BS.

Those are forecasts not facts Lusty and when did these organisations ever get a forecast right. Of course facts never did influence you’re constant carping did it? 

Whitesince63 wrote:
Those are forecasts not facts Lusty and when did these organisations ever get a forecast right. Of course facts never did influence you’re constant carping did it? 

No mate - the shrinkage in our economy compared to others is a fact.

And you can’t blame that on covid or Ukraine or bad luck.

wanderlust wrote:I’ll make it even easier. 

Those factors also affect other countries but the UK is the only country in the G7  with a smaller economy than before COVID.

The UK has the highest inflation and inflation forecast in the G7

The UK will have to make the most cuts to public services pro rata to total government spending in the G7


The UK is also the only country in the G7 that has endured an incompetent Tory government.

No that is a completely false narrative - those things have happened because of the path we have had to take due to Brexit (which of course YOU VOTED FOR).

None of the other countries have taken a hit from Brexit (which in case you keep forgetting YOU VOTED FOR) and indeed THREE of the seven G7 countries aren't even in the EU either and have completely separate market conditions to trade in.

The US and Canada in particular aren't affected in anything like the same way as we are in terms of the weaponisation of Russian energy supplies.

Clearly Brexit (which YOU VOTED FOR) has detrimentally affected our trade positions in respect to the other G7 countries and in particular to France, Germany and Italy who are of course still in the EU.

If you really want the bottom line in simplicity, it is that YOU search for and interpret everything in a negative context to the UK simply to reinforce and justify your hatred of the Tory government.

Do you think a Labour government would not have faced the same economic trade issues resulting from Brexit (which YOU VOTED FOR), or Covid, or to deal with massive rise in energy costs.

Of course they would - and the economic position would be much of a muchness to what we have now.

Your prejudice and bias of everything Tory, corrupts and obliterates your ability to reason rationality and logically and you've replaced that instead with your total and pathological hatred of them and all they do.

Do you honestly believe that if Labour had been in government the last 12 years that everything now would be lovely and rosy?

Of course it wouldn't!

You just spew your bile because you hate the Tories and all they do whether it is good or bad - that's the bottom line with you.

IMF say price rises will be worse in UK
Here

Kwarteng's "anti-growth coalition" seems to be made up of those trying to save the planet, those trying to give people a decent living wage, those trying to look after the vulnerable, those trying to make us a less divided country and a more equal society.

The real enemy of the UK is her government and their dangerously unhinged ideology.

Rachel Reeves was wrong when she said in the commons today that Quazi and Lizzie must be the only two people on the planet who still believe their plan is working. There's a couple of deluded people on here as well.
"The Anti Growth Coalition"  . Absolutely pathetic and hilarious.
It's a catch phrase that's just not going to catch on is it. Even most of their own backbench MPs would be part of it.
While we're at it they really need to stop wheeling Therese Coffey out to do the rounds defending the latest daily disasters. She winds me up no end with the total BS she spouts. Every interview she gives is just a total car crash full of lies and evasion. She's Deputy PM for Christ's sake but claims she's not aware of any of the government's future plans for anything whatsoever. Either that or she avoids answering the questions she's asked by giving a pre-prepared answer to a different question she hasn't been asked but would rather answer. 
A B C D      O M G     Embarrassing!

Hip Priest wrote:Rachel Reeves was wrong when she said in the commons today that Quazi and Lizzie must be the only two people on the planet who still believe their plan is working.  There's a couple of deluded people on here as well.

If you are aiming that in my direction, then you couldn't be more wrong and also have completely missed the whole point about the 45% tax cut that I made.

Fwiw I even stated publicly on here more than once Rishi should be elected as the next PM as he was the only one who talked any sense about the economy during the canvassing to be the next Prime Minister.

Sluffy wrote: I stated on here a couple of times during her head-to-head with Rushi that I didn't want Truss to be our next PM because I didn't believe her economic strategy was the right one for the country - so even I, a mere bean counter from the lowest levels of public service - or whatever it was that you called me, could see what was coming yet you, Mr (pretend) Business Consultant, seemingly couldn't!

I've also written on here (more than once) that there is no way that they could fund the £45 billion of tax cuts by savings alone and that she was dead against increasing more government borrowing and that her platform to become PM was based on the impossibility to give out £45 billion in tax cuts and not increase borrowing to pay for it!

Sluffy wrote: I told you that Truss's tax cut and determination not to fund them by increased borrowing - on which she based her leadership campaign - made absolutely no economic sense whatsoever - but in all honesty I never expected her to actually implement them - I just thought it was rhetoric to beat Rushi and that she might do something around the edges in order to say she was working on the polices she won the leadership on.

So go on then apart from '63', who is this other person who posts on here who believes the 'mini' budget plan is working?

As it clearly isn't me!

Hearing a disturbing rumour that Truss has done another u-turn on windfall tax and will be price capping renewables but not oil and gas.

If this is true it stinks of a new level of corruption.

wanderlust wrote:Hearing a disturbing rumour that Truss has done another u-turn on windfall tax and will be price capping renewables but not oil and gas.

If this is true it stinks of a new level of corruption.

Oil and Gas companies have already been price capped so why shouldn’t renewables have their margins limited when all of their turnover is within the U.K.? The foreign fat cats owning these companies who are already raking in huge profits due to the cost of oil and gas are what’s making peoples bills bigger than they should be. I should have thought you and your lefty chums would have been celebrating the news?

Whitesince63 wrote:
Oil and Gas companies have already been price capped so why shouldn’t renewables have their margins limited when all of their turnover is within the U.K.? The foreign fat cats owning these companies who are already raking in huge profits due to the cost of oil and gas are what’s making peoples bills bigger than they should be. I should have thought you and your lefty chums would have been celebrating the news?

Wind generators built under the Contracts for Different scheme have been returning profits to customers for years.

Tory backbenchers considering putsch as Truss fails again to win them over Here

“She has the fridge life of a lettuce”

Sluffy wrote:

If you are aiming that in my direction, then you couldn't be more wrong and also have completely missed the whole point about the 45% tax cut that I made.

Fwiw I even stated publicly on here more than once Rishi should be elected as the next PM as he was the only one who talked any sense about the economy during the canvassing to be the next Prime Minister.



I've also written on here (more than once) that there is no way that they could fund the £45 billion of tax cuts by savings alone and that she was dead against increasing more government borrowing and that her platform to become PM was based on the impossibility to give out £45 billion in tax cuts and not increase borrowing to pay for it!



So go on then apart from '63', who is this other person who posts on here who believes the 'mini' budget plan is working?

As it clearly isn't me!

 
TBF Sluffy I am fully aware that you haven't posted anything in praise of the mini-budget. What does wind me up though is every single time certain posters (Wanderlust) makes a perfectly reasonable comment/argument/criticism of anything negative pertaining to Conservative party politics you jump in immediately with personal insults about his sanity, his internet honesty/identity and claim that his opinions don't count because they are merely the product of his rabid, obsessive,Tory hating mind. 
Sorry about the Oxford comma. 
You do regularly go way over the top Sluff. I know it's a 2 way thing but it's always you that kicks off the aggro.

Hip Priest wrote: TBF Sluffy I am fully aware that you haven't posted anything in praise of the mini-budget. What does wind me up though is every single time certain posters (Wanderlust) makes a perfectly reasonable comment/argument/criticism of anything negative pertaining to Conservative party politics you jump in immediately with personal insults about his sanity, his internet honesty/identity and claim that his opinions don't count because they are merely the product of his rabid, obsessive,Tory hating mind. 
Sorry about the Oxford comma. 
You do regularly go way over the top Sluff. I know it's a 2 way thing but it's always you that kicks off the aggro.

If you see it that way mate then I suggest you look again!

Does this seem reasonable, unbiased and considered comment from Wanderlust - he posted it today, in fact just a few hours ago...

wanderlust wrote: Tories: dangerous megalomaniacs dismantling a once great nation.

...or is it the rantings of an unhinged and very bitter nutjob?

Is that something 'normal' people would say?

Of course it isn't.

The site is full of lefties on here - you, Bonce, Wessy, Karly, Cajun, Norpig (and if it counts at all even me who voted Labour until the time the penny dropped with me that politics is nothing more than a power game irrespective what political party you supported) so I don't have issues with you or anyone else having socialist leanings BUT I do have issues with the clear hatred Wanderlust posts unceasingly on here about all things Conservative.

I call it out.

I call out his unbiased, unhinged, naked hatred of all things Tory.

I laugh at his obsessiveness.

I ridicule it - and him.

I'm trying to put an end to him posting his hate on here - obviously he will never stop hating them personally (he's clearly sick in the head about them in my opinion as can be evidenced by obsessiveness and content of what he unceasingly posts about them).

So NO, I DON'T 'kick off the aggro' as you put it - I'm not the one posting the hatred in the first place - I'm the one trying to STOP 'the aggro' by making it abundantly clear to all that the forum isn't here simply as a vehicle for one man to post his hatred and bile every day for weeks, and months and years which Wanderlust has.

We aren't that type of site and never have been and it needs to stop.

The trouble is you and a few others have seen me as the baddie on here and Wanderlust being somehow 'oppressed' by me.

Try looking at it such that Wanderlust isn't making a "perfectly reasonable comment/argument/criticism of anything negative pertaining to Conservative party politics" but rather he's posting his personal prejudicial biased and unhinged hatred of them based not on coherent analysis of what they are doing/have done but on his longstanding personal emotive dislike/hatred of them and everything they do.

Common sense should tell you not EVERYTHING they do is wrong or bad - but Wanderlust has never given them credit for anything AND has often commented that the Tory Governments are just puppets of some dark secretive internal cabal, set on trashing the UK's economy so that they can bet against the pound to make a financial killing.

He's off his head mate, surely you can see that by now???

(I'm pretty sure most everybody else has!)

Once he packs in posting his hatred then I will have nothing to laugh at him about will I?

So I'm not the one starting the shit - never have been.

I'm the one who is trying to end it for the good of ALL of us.


PS - for it to be an Oxford comma, you need to use it before the word 'and' so your sentence should have ended like this...

...merely the product of his rabid, obsessive, and Tory hating mind.

PPS - and if that was intended as some sort of pop at me, then I've only started to use them recently since a 'grammar' check was installed on this site - as a dyslexic I tend to go with what the spellcheck and grammar 'correcter' recommends - because I often don't have a clue!

Hip Priest wrote:
 
TBF Sluffy I am fully aware that you haven't posted anything in praise of the mini-budget. What does wind me up though is every single time certain posters (Wanderlust) makes a perfectly reasonable comment/argument/criticism of anything negative pertaining to Conservative party politics you jump in immediately with personal insults about his sanity, his internet honesty/identity and claim that his opinions don't count because they are merely the product of his rabid, obsessive,Tory hating mind. 
Sorry about the Oxford comma. 
You do regularly go way over the top Sluff. I know it's a 2 way thing but it's always you that kicks off the aggro.

One day he’ll work out that it’s the incompetent government and corrupt individuals within it that I’m critical of as they are the ones who affect lives on a grand scale rather than the Tory party itself which doesn’t - at least not on the same scale.
I would love to be able to praise their policies and actions but unfortunately it’s been one long farcical disaster and on the rare occasion they do something good it’s invariably to mitigate against the effects of their previous actions.
E.g. Truss yesterday who instead of answering Starmers questions kept whining on about whether or not Labour supported her proposal to help out with energy bills. Starmers response should have been “as you and Kwarting have bombed the economy, Labour has no choice but to support any measure that will ease the pain - but you caused the very problem you’re trying to fix” - but Starmer is too dumb to see an open door.

Similarly all her whining about external factors should have been put in a box by asking why other countries are coping better than the UK and are not affected as much as the UK? But again he fluffed it.

It’s almost as if HM Opposition is facilitating this train wreck.

wanderlust wrote:

Hip Priest wrote:
 
TBF Sluffy I am fully aware that you haven't posted anything in praise of the mini-budget. What does wind me up though is every single time certain posters (Wanderlust) makes a perfectly reasonable comment/argument/criticism of anything negative pertaining to Conservative party politics you jump in immediately with personal insults about his sanity, his internet honesty/identity and claim that his opinions don't count because they are merely the product of his rabid, obsessive,Tory hating mind. 
Sorry about the Oxford comma. 
You do regularly go way over the top Sluff. I know it's a 2 way thing but it's always you that kicks off the aggro.

One day he’ll work out that it’s the incompetent government and corrupt individuals within it that I’m critical of as they are the ones who affect lives on a grand scale rather than the Tory party itself which doesn’t - at least not on the same scale.
I would love to be able to praise their policies and actions but unfortunately it’s been one long farcical disaster and on the rare occasion they do something good it’s invariably to mitigate against the effects of their previous actions.
E.g. Truss yesterday who instead of answering Starmers questions kept whining on about whether or not Labour supported her proposal to help out with energy bills. Starmers response should have been “as you and Kwarting have bombed the economy, Labour has no choice but to support any measure that will ease the pain - but you caused the very problem you’re trying to fix” - but Starmer is too dumb to see an open door.

Similarly all her whining about external factors should have been put in a box by asking why other countries are coping better than the UK and are not affected as much as the UK? But again he fluffed it.

It’s almost as if HM Opposition is facilitating this train wreck.

Ok then, let us make it simple, the Conservative government has been in power for 12 years.

Please give examples of ANY corruption of ANY Conservative MP that has led to a prosecution/imprisonment.

It should be easy as you bang on about such corruption daily.

Go on then...


As for Truss, she's a waste of space, I've said that on here numerous times.

I called out what would happen if Truss was to win the leadership race and implement her nonsensical economic policies she was proposing - you clearly had no idea as I had to explain them to you Janet and John style.

I told people on here, most notably Wessy, that the 45% Tax cut was in effect totally irrelevant to the overall effects of the 'mini budget' and that the total focus really should be on how the other proposed £42 billion of tax cuts could be funded if not from further borrowing or found from government savings - both of which she has gone on to publicly rule out and hence why the government/the country is now in.

And lo and behold that is exactly why the whole international financial community has viewed this budget as 'insane' resulting in all the carnage that has happened ever SINCE the 45% tax cut was U-TURNED.

I'm not claiming I'm some sort of a genius - this is all really basic stuff for anyone who knows a bit about how politics and economics actually works and can apply an unbiased and rational mind to give a reasoned analysis.

Wanderlust certainly doesn't do that!

Instead, it is a constant diatribe of Tory corruption (ok where is the hard evidence for this - I've not seen any just Maughamesque insinuations and innuendos propagated and fed to the sheep like Wanderlust on social media to believe as gospel - which he does!).

So in short there has been NO corruption proved against Tory MP's or their 'cronies' in the last TWELVE YEARS of Tory Government and all we get from Wanderlust is blanket hatred for everything the Conservatives have done from Thatcher's time in office onwards.

That isn't unbiased and reasoned analysis from him, that's the rantings and ravings of an angry, hateful and utter obsessed looney - and it really is time for it to stop on here.

wanderlust wrote:
Wind generators built under the Contracts for Different scheme have been returning profits to customers for years.

The electricity price which the renewables companies are benefitting from is generated from the gas price which is clearly ridiculous. Surely even you can’t argue that’s fair? Setting a sensible maximum price for a purely home generated and consumed market product is a sensible thing to do? By all means charge market price for exports but for the home market, why should we pay exorbitant prices which people can’t afford. Before you start whinging on about oil and gas again, consider the amount of tax already imposed compared to renewables.

Sluffy, whilst I do agree with you on Lusty, I do wish he would drop the myopic Tory view but I disagree with you on both Truss and the mini budget solely being responsible for the damage caused. For a start, I 100% agree with what she’s attempting (badly) to achieve and further, I actually believe that the vast majority of the public would too if only it had been explained correctly. The energy cap, NI rise cancellation and Corporation Tax level had been well flagged beforehand and weren’t an issue. Where they went wrong in my opinion was in removing the 45% tax rate and bringing forward the Income Tax reduction without a clear explanation first of how they would pay for it without borrowing. This was exacerbated by the abysmal, performance of the BofE to react much earlier to interest rate rises, which both the US and others had recognised was necessary and applied and the comments that they were selling the bonds purchased through Quantitive Easing. The timing of both of those was what spooked the market and the further recent comments from them about this Friday make things even worse and prove not the governments alone but also their incompetence.

As I say, I’m fully behind what Liz is trying to do and so should all Tory’s and right minded people but the way it’s been done and been delivered is appalling, I do agree. Surely, if you were going to make such drastic changes, which we always knew she intended, the budget should have been accompanied by both a statement as to the reasons for it and it’s advantages to the ordinary person in the street, however tough it might feel and also exactly how it would be paid for, including any borrowing. Had this been done the panic could have been avoided. We are not alone in having to make tough decisions but other governments by and large did explain around them and it was our failure to do so which resulted in the lack of confidence which arose.

Nobody can dismiss the costly and negative effects of the Covic Pandemic and the Ukraine war, especially coming on top of Brexit, so any government would have had serious issues to deal with. In fairness to Truss, she only has two years to effect her changes and so there was no time to delay and apply later. I can’t argue that it was rushed through without proper thought and that several of the cuts were unnecessary, nor do I think she is the most charismatic politician to carry them out but we are where we are and backtracking on them now would be a disaster. In fact I’m coming round to the thought that now would actually be the best time for the Tory’s to call for an election because I don’t see any way, whoever was Tory PM, that things can be corrected within the time left. As hard and destructive as it may be, I’d be inclined to give Labour the opportunity to prove just how completely incompetent they are and at least guarantee a Tory return afterwards when we can start rebuilding for another 15 to 20 year reign once the young who have never experienced a Labour government finally realise the error of their ways!!