How is the Tory Government Doing?

Whitesince63 wrote:Sluffy, let’s just agree to disagree on the likes and causes of climate change, or the failure of Liz Truss or any other matters on which we may differ. This forum is for views not for you to try and convince me of yours no matter how much you believe in them.

???

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you've clearly showed often enough now that you don't have an open mind in order to be convinced!

I merely counter your assertions - that global warming has nothing to do with being man made, or that Trickle Down economics would have worked if Truss had made gradual changes instead of all at once - by showing you the science behind why it IS man made and how the GLOBAL ECONOMY reupdates and continues to shun Trickle down (even if it was introduced at the slowest rate possible!!!).

(Might as well chuck in the fact that you don't (maybe you finally do now?) believe that children are able to pass on the Covid virus).

Of course you are free to believe whatever you want and equally I and others (Bonce and Norpig) are free to laugh at your extreme views (rooted in right wing Libertarianism (the sort of stuff Trump and the more looney Republicans push).

We are on the internet - it is unregulated, anybody could post almost anything they want - and they do!!!

Look at QAnon for instance!

Sadly people believe any shit they read on it - just as long as it fits in with what they want to believe in the first place - and reject everything that doesn't fit in with their views.

Just like you do.

It is what it is, I suppose.

It's got to the scary point too - in America they stormed their version of Parliament, Russia has brainwashed its own people to go and fight imaginary Nazi's in Ukraine, it's common now that people threaten to kill football owners, or rape celebrates, or cancel culture whatever it is they don't like.

It effects peoples lives.

I can't stop any of this and certainly don't plan to waste my life convincing you that you've swallowed an ocean of political propaganda that you now firmly believe in.

I simply just laugh at the absurdity of it all - what else could I do?

If you believe the world is just fine and there's no issue burning fossil fuel and that all the experts are being paid to say global warming is man made, then carry on believing that...

The water was brought by Storm Daniel which hit Libya on Sunday.

The storm - a Mediterranean hurricane-like system known as a medicane - brought more than 400mm of rain to parts of the north-east coast within a 24-hour period.

That is an extraordinary deluge of water for a region which usually sees about 1.5mm throughout the whole of September.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66799518

...but stuff like the above which is believed to have killed around 20,000 in Libya the other day will simply become more frequent year on year.

Maybe it is me, maybe I shouldn't be laughing at people's belief's based on what they read and swallow from social media manipulation, maybe I shouldn't be laughing at people who need to tell lies on social media because they can't be seen to be wrong, maybe I shouldn't laugh at people's hate and intolerance...

...but I do.

It's either that or have a full lobotomy and join the crowd with everyone else.

And I won't be doing that.

Climate change is a thing. Lets get real. I've given up trying to turn people around.

boltonbonce wrote:Climate change is a thing. Lets get real. I've given up trying to turn people around.

Does anybody still doubt that the climate is changing? I don’t think so, it’s changed since the planet was formed and will always continue to do so. I’m just not in the camp that believes as humans we can do a whole lot about it.

I’m still on the fence with this one tbh 63.

Even if global warming (or whatever you wish to call it) is true then hasn’t our country done enough with getting rid of all our mills and factories with chimneys from the Industrial Revolution etc?

Our country is small. Why don’t the climate brigade go and protest in China? Until China does anything then wouldn’t we be fighting a losing battle with changing our diesel and unleaded cars to electric when other countries aren’t following suit?

So for now I’m going to continue burning my wood in my stove, having bbq’s when I want and going around in my diesel car when I want.

karlypants wrote:I’m still on the fence with this one tbh 63.

Even if global warming (or whatever you wish to call it) is true then hasn’t our country done enough with getting rid of all our mills and factories with chimneys from the Industrial Revolution etc?

Our country is small. Why don’t the climate brigade go and protest in China? Until China does anything then wouldn’t we be fighting a losing battle with changing our diesel and unleaded cars to electric when other countries aren’t following suit?

So for now I’m going to continue burning my wood in my stove, having bbq’s when I want and going around in my diesel car when I want.

Global warming is real, the current cycle of global warming has been conclusively been proven to be man made through the burning of fossil fuels which produce a unique isotope of CO2 that is driving the change faster than anything the Earth has ever experienced in its entire 4.5 billion year history.

And yes you are completely correct, the world will have to work together to limit the worst effects of global warming that will undoubtable happen in the coming decades.

Will the world work together - no it won't.

They will when it becomes blindingly obvious the planet is fucked - but it will be too late by then.

Some people like myself try and do our own little bits to help - believe me I'm not a tree hugger or anything like that, it would be good if others did so as well - but reality is few will.

Until China and America lead the way there's really not much point even doing the tiny bit I am but I don't like being a hypocrite, so I walk or use public transport if I can rather than using the car, put out my recycling and even pick bits of litter off the street (usually glass bottles or tin cans) and stick them in the nearest recycling bins.

A bit pathetic I know but better than nothing I suppose?

I've no problem if you or anyone else have your barbies or driving your diesel cars but you have a child who will be the one who suffers in years to come - that's why I do what I do, I want my child and my grandchildren to not have an utterly crazy world (weather-wise) to live in.

Unfortunately they almost certainly will, but at least I did what I could not to fuck it up any further for them.

Sluffy I actually had to read karlys post twice to make sure it wasn’t me who wrote it because I agree with every word. Everything you’ve said you do, recycling, picking up litter, walking where possible etc. I also do. Not because I believe the worlds about to fry because I absolutely don’t but because it’s the sensible thing to do. Likewise my belief in moving to renewable energy because it is undeniably cleaner and fossil fuels will run out at some point so best to do it now. I love my grandchildren more than anything and of course want the best for them but I’m more worried about things I’m CERTAIN will affect them like crime, housing, wokeism, lack of freedom of speech and unbridled immigration. Those things are affecting them now and all are getting worse. You can quote what “facts” you want about climate change, which we’ll never agree are really facts anyway but even you agree that unless and until the main fossil fuel users refrain, which we know they won’t, it’s totally bloody pointless you an me effectively virtue signalling, look how green I am. We have always had weather events, floods, droughts, storms, fires, right throughout history so giving it the “since records began” bit means nothing. The planet will survive and so will my grandkids and their grandkids but given the way the human race is heading I’m not sure what kind of a shithole they’ll inherit?

The planet will survive yes - but that doesn't mean human's will - don't you understand that?

Climate change effects both chemically and physically the air we breath and the land we walk on - we (humans) have evolved to live within certain fine margins, we can't breath the atmosphere if it becomes poisonous to us, we can't grow crops and feed ourselves if the planet becomes to hot for plants and animals to survive.

This is basic Janet and John stuff.

Similarly you need to understand the basics about isotopes, this being their definition -

Each of two or more forms of the same element that contain equal numbers of protons but different numbers of neutrons in their nuclei, and hence differ in relative atomic mass but not in chemical properties.

Maybe think of this a little bit like cars - we all know what a car is - a car is a car, right - but not all cars are made the same way, some are made from steel, others aluminium, fibreglass, etc - similarly CO2 is CO2 but not all CO2 is formed the same way.

CO2 can be made from the gasses of volcanos - these isotopes being Carbon 13, or the burning of fossil fuels - these isotopes being Carbon 12

Scientists taking ice cores are able to measure what Carbon isotopes have been in the Earths atmosphere over the millenniums - which show it to be Carbon 13 - it having occurred naturally from periodic mass volcano outbreaks that have effected the Earths atmosphere causing the periods of global warming that the planet has gone through.

Research shows that the highest level of CO2 ever found in the last 800,000 years was 300 ppm and was Carbon 13 based.

That was until the last few decades, it now is 417 ppm, skyrocketing and is all Carbon 12 driven.

In other words this current period of global warming can only be being driven by man made burning of fossil fuel - it is NOT a natural occurrence - the graph showing the results of the research for the last 800,000 is quite frightening.



A full explanation of what I've just simplified above is here -

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/how-do-we-know-build-carbon-dioxide-atmosphere-caused-humans#:~:text=As%20carbon%20dioxide%20concentrations%20in,%E2%80%94radioactive%20carbon%E2%80%94has%20declined.

NOAA - Climate.gov -

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (abbreviated as NOAA /ˈnoʊ.ə/ NOH-ə) is a Washington, D.C.–based scientific and regulatory agency within the United States Department of Commerce, a United States federal government department. The agency is charged with forecasting weather, monitoring oceanic and atmospheric conditions, charting the seas, conducting deep sea exploration, and managing fishing and protection of marine mammals and endangered species in the U.S. exclusive economic zone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Oceanic_and_Atmospheric_Administration



And yes you are right, WE ALL NEED TO DO SOMETHING NOW - but the world won't - I'm not stupid I know that.

I'm not one of those loons who protest and stop the traffic, I'm not virtue signalling, in a sense I don't have any personal stake in this at all - I'll be long dead before the shit really hits the fan - but I do care, not least because my daughter and her kids are going to have to live through what is definitely coming.

Let me try to explain it to you (and others) this way.

BWFC existed before I was born and will hopefully be around long after I die, so how would you feel if the current owners and all the fans live for the moment and don't care about the future - they spend money that is unsustainable so much so that the club becomes fucked.

Ok it sort of hangs on, say playing teams like Bamber Bridge but to all intents and purposes it has ruined its future and the future of all those who will be living at that time, simply because they didn't care about tomorrow and their kids tomorrows.

We are simply custodians of the planet for our children and their children or at least we should be.

I know I waste my breath but that is the reality of what will happen in terms of global warming - and even if a miracle happened today, it will only help mitigate the very worst of what is going to come because the damage has already been done.

Better that than nothing though.

I've been banging on to friends for years, Sluffy, but they don't want to hear.

The earth isn't dying, we are.

Ok Sluffy, let’s say that I accept totally everything you’ve just posted and since I’m not a scientist I don’t know if it’s right or not but your information looks pretty compelling. What can I do? What can you do, in fact what can our whole country do? This is my point. Whether I agree with you or not until the big boys agree and act it’s pointless us penalising ourselves, which we certainly are. We know they won’t so either they’re stupid, deaf or just maybe they don’t agree with the timescales and scaremongering of the climate activists. I don’t know, none of us do but what I do know is, we here can’t do a thing about it.

boltonbonce wrote:I've been banging on to friends for years, Sluffy, but they don't want to hear.

The earth isn't dying, we are.

It's a sort of King Canute of thing that people can't seem to understand, namely that man does not command what the planet does, it is nature (or more accurately the science behind nature that makes it do what it does).

The story of Canute and the tide isn't that he thought he was all powerful but rather the complete reverse - that man has no control over nature (Canute's point is that only God can do that - I would argue there is no God only science - but that is not what we are on about today, so let's leave that for another day).

It is simply cause an effect - volcano's explode and create a degree of global warming but the global warming we are experiencing isn't the CO2 from volcanos - it's the CO2 from the consumption of fossil fuels - and the consumption has been so huge in the last several decades that it has started off a chain of events which has happened only once in the Earths history, long before there were animals and humans and only single cell organisms existed.

At the time that was caused solely by centuries of volcano activity across the plants surface only virtually killed off ALL life.

It took millions and millions of years for the planet to recover.

Indeed when it finally did the planet laid down the forests and vegetation that eventually turned into the fossil fuels we are burning now!

Ironic really.

We've been down this road once before, we know that much of all life will die because the climate will change in a way that won't sustain most of it.

I'm not saying that will end up happening this time too but if we don't stop our consumption of fossil fuels then ultimately it will, the longer we leave it, the worse it will get.

It's all explained quite simply in the BBC programme Earth.

People really need to get themselves educated instead of living in ignorance or denial

It is easy watching too, it isn't there to brainwash you, it just shows you how science (or God if you prefer) actually works - and how we (humans) are bringing all this on ourselves!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0fpwly8/earth-series-1-1-inferno

Whitesince63 wrote:Ok Sluffy, let’s say that I accept totally everything you’ve just posted and since I’m not a scientist I don’t know if it’s right or not but your information looks pretty compelling. What can I do? What can you do, in fact what can our whole country do? This is my point. Whether I agree with you or not until the big boys agree and act it’s pointless us penalising ourselves, which we certainly are. We know they won’t so either they’re stupid, deaf or just maybe they don’t agree with the timescales and scaremongering of the climate activists. I don’t know, none of us do but what I do know is, we here can’t do a thing about it.

I agree, we can't do anything to stop what is going on, all we can do is our little bit until the big boys start to realise they've fucked up.

There are signs that China have begun to realise that - I published stuff in one of my earlier posts on this thread about their apparent U turn on climate change (no doubt you didn't bother to read it along with most of my other posts?).

Everything to the big boys is about money and power - they don't give a fuck about us - they manipulate us - you don't seem to understand that?  They don't care about tomorrow, they want it all today.

We can't take out the CO2 that is already released into the atmosphere which leads to global warming and so we have to suffer the resulting increase on climate change.

Yes, as you said earlier we will have floods, droughts, storms, fires, as we have always had but the energy released by global warming will make them greater and stronger than they have ever been before and continue to make them greater and stronger year on year, while we still continue to burn more and more fossil fuels.

We - you, me and the big boys can't stop it, we/they can only make it less worse by stopping the use of fossil fuels as soon as we can.

It's obvious to me that that won't happen until it becomes too late and everyone
sees for themselves the world is fucked - Christ we can't even get folk to stand 2 meters apart and wear a mask when Covid was upon us, so people aren't going to stop driving their cars on flying away on holiday anytime soon are they?

It is what it is.

I can't stop it but choose to do my little bit even if it is meaningless - so instead of 8 billion and 1 people fucking up the planet there's now 8 billion doing so and 1 (me!) not doing quite as much fucking it up as I was doing before.

If we all did our meaningless little bits, then that's a start isn't it - maybe it will help make things not quite so bad as it might otherwise be for those who have to face the consequences of our stupidity in years to come?

That's the only hope I have and why I do what I do.

Sluffy wrote:

BoltonTillIDie wrote:Obsession I think

Yes certainly obsession is involved, but not from me.

Why do you think Wanderlust made a special visit to return just to have another  pop at me?

Yet again!

I just laugh at him.

Hence the joke I made.

Pity you fail to realise that.

And if you want an example, I spotted this from him obsessing over me just today over on ww!!!

Wanderlust wrote:This is refreshing. Nice to be on a forum where you can call Anderson out for being the c*** he was without the site owner writing War and Peace in Anderson's defence (usually "nothing was proven") and handing out bans left, right and centre for disagreeing with him.

It's just an opinion - and my opinion is that Anderson was a thieving c*** who put his own interests ahead of the club and scared off potential investors with his wankery which threatened our existence and delayed our rescue for years. Tosspot.

https://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/93974-football-ventures/page/36/#comment-2502486

...and to top it off, it wouldn't be Wanderlust without the lies!

Fwiw I've NEVER banned anyone for disagreeing with me, either on this site or all the others sites I've ever modded over the years...

There’s so many things I want to say to this but I just really can’t be arsed.

Me too. Whenever I visit, almost every article reads the same as the last. Bonce’s Personal Thread and the Prediction competitions seem to be the only safe haven. It’s a sorry state of affairs.

finlaymcdanger wrote:Me too. Whenever I visit, almost every article reads the same as the last. Bonce’s Personal Thread and the Prediction competitions seem to be the only safe haven. It’s a sorry state of affairs.

Oh diddums.

You could spend your time more profitably by building up your business skills. There's help from the NatWest recommended by Nigel Farage and Marcus Rashford. Remember to get yourself a beanie hat and your arms tattooed first.

https://www.natwest.com/business/insights/businessbuilder.html?&extcam=N_Bus_PPC_GGL_BBldr_Bus-BDRQ22023_0_0_business%20finance%20course_Search&gclid=CjwKCAjwpJWoBhA8EiwAHZFzfqR0ruLVUm4HaUtDMPdUzMNSPHTPE7NkpfWYiD_mmhtPYEClZ1fJdBoCut8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
Oh diddums.

You could spend your time more profitably by building up your business skills. There's help from the NatWest recommended by Nigel Farage and Marcus Rashford. Remember to get yourself a beanie hat and your arms tattooed first.

https://www.natwest.com/business/insights/businessbuilder.html?&extcam=N_Bus_PPC_GGL_BBldr_Bus-BDRQ22023_0_0_business%20finance%20course_Search&gclid=CjwKCAjwpJWoBhA8EiwAHZFzfqR0ruLVUm4HaUtDMPdUzMNSPHTPE7NkpfWYiD_mmhtPYEClZ1fJdBoCut8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I clicked on that link, and was sadly disappointed. Not once did I feel a visit from the cops was imminent. 
Try this one.

https://www.mostfungames.com/do-not-press-the-red-button.htm

You are a bit different, aren't you Boncey? Not for you joining a 'community of like-minded individuals to connect and share ideas'



Do you even wear a beanie hat or sleeveless tops to show off your tatts?

Ten Bobsworth wrote:You are a bit different, aren't you Boncey? Not for you joining a 'community of like-minded individuals to connect and share ideas'



Do you even wear a beanie hat or sleeveless tops to show off your tatts?

No tatts. No beanie, although a do have a lot of hats, most of which I'm not allowed to wear in public, due to family pressure.
As for 'like minded individuals', I only tend to meet them at lineups, where we discus our mac technique at great length.
The number one tip is, avoid macs with a belt, they're always trouble.

There’s nothing wrong with being a bit different Bob!